Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Nah, no hicks in PA. They all live in Arkansas.
I resemble that......being born in Pennsylvania and now residing in Arkansas.
Mold Temp - Pot/Alloy temp
- Thread starter Rick
- Start date
I resemble that......being born in Pennsylvania and now residing in Arkansas.
Now work to develop a rhythm that keeps the mould in that window without electronics. How long after pouring to cut sprue, when to drop bullets, when to refill cavities.
Time and experience are impossible to replace. Watch what is happening, draw some accurate conclusions, and forge on. With time a good cadence and rhythm is easy to identify for any individual mould.
Kevin, it's all directly related to what your shooting. "IF" your shooting high velocity and or looking for bench rest accuracy from a rifle that is capable of such accuracy or shooting high velocity from small bores trying to hold such tolerances "might" pay off. For the vast majority of cast bullet shooting it may be worth while as part of an education but will have little effect on the shooting. A 0.5 gr difference in a 40 gr bullet is far more of the percentage of total bullet weight than is a 0.5 gr difference of 180 or 200 gr bullet.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
You'se guys are too scientific for me.....being a hick from Arkansaw. Forty plus years of casting, with no need for a PID let alone a thermometer. Yeah, I have one.....when Rick comes over, while I'm casting, I sometimes put it in the pot to humor him. Long ago, I did weigh and cull my boolits....not any more.....didn't seem worth the effort. Most of the time, they fall within plus or minus half a grain. Only cull now for rounded bands and dimpled bases.
I don't even use a known alloy, just a hodgepodge of scrounged lead and plumbers solder drippings. I was a pipefitter in my other life. By shear luck....it approximates WW alloy in hardness and behaves the same when heat treated. I recover most of it, from the sand berm of my private range, so it stays pretty consistent. I only allow Rick to contaminate it with his alloy.
BTW, I have never slugged a barrel and never suffered from leading. Rick's bore-scope can attest to that. Must be holding my mouth, just right.
Yeah, I have one.....when Rick comes over, while I'm casting, I sometimes put it in the pot to humor him. Long ago, I did weigh and cull my boolits....not any more.....didn't seem worth the effort. Most of the time, they fall within plus or minus half a grain. Only cull now for rounded bands and dimpled bases. I don't even use a known alloy, just a hodgepodge of scrounged lead and plumbers solder drippings. I was a pipefitter in my other life. By shear luck....it approximates WW alloy in hardness and behaves the same when heat treated. I recover most of it, from the sand berm of my private range, so it stays pretty consistent. I only allow Rick to contaminate it with his alloy.
BTW, I have never slugged a barrel and never suffered from leading. Rick's bore-scope can attest to that. Must be holding my mouth, just right.
Elric
Well-Known Member
Mould is too hot if the alloy runs out of the cavity when you open the blocks.... I have seen it.
Pb2au
Active Member
One of my breakthrough moments in casting bullets was watching the sprue harden. Specifically, watching the mold draw metal in from the sprue puddle as the bullet began to solidify.
In this case, it was a rather heavy (405 grain 45 mold). It finally sunk in that my mold temp, playing with the alloy temp, AND the amount of sprue puddle I was giving it, AND the rate at which the sprue puddle was freezing up, was one of the keys to the kingdom to getting consistent weight/quality on these bullets.
If my sprue was freezing before the mold was finished drawing that minute amount of material in as the bullet solidified, then the bullet would starve a bit. The sprue cooling too quickly I general attribute to the sprue plate (and the mold to a degree) being a bit too cool.
If I had too less of material in the sprue puddle, then it would get that distictive concavity in the center of it.
If the mold was way too cool, then the material wouldn't have enough time to fill up the cavity properly, and to extant, keep the plate too cool, etc etc etc..... I would get a bit of a messy sprue and an ill filled out bullet.
To try and quantify this, I weighed a heap of bullets I cast when I wasn't as attentive to the temp/sprue/conspiracy and noted the ranges of weights.
I did it again with a batch of bullets that I WAS attentive too.
In the end, the second batch was of higher visual quality, less rejects, and weighed more closely to one another.
So what was my general take away from this?
Keeping the mold temp up and steady of course leads to higher quality bullets. My canary in the mineshaft is the bullet themselves. quick survey of the bullets as they hit the towel to cool told me roughly where I was. Too cool, too hot and so on. The sprue activity also helps me supervise this. Too hot, the sprue puddle is like a bead of mercury on a sheet of glass, too cool, too sluggish and so on.
Watch, observe and learn!
Or as my dad always said, "pay attention to what you are doing!"
Great thread by the way. This is mucho great info.
In this case, it was a rather heavy (405 grain 45 mold). It finally sunk in that my mold temp, playing with the alloy temp, AND the amount of sprue puddle I was giving it, AND the rate at which the sprue puddle was freezing up, was one of the keys to the kingdom to getting consistent weight/quality on these bullets.
If my sprue was freezing before the mold was finished drawing that minute amount of material in as the bullet solidified, then the bullet would starve a bit. The sprue cooling too quickly I general attribute to the sprue plate (and the mold to a degree) being a bit too cool.
If I had too less of material in the sprue puddle, then it would get that distictive concavity in the center of it.
If the mold was way too cool, then the material wouldn't have enough time to fill up the cavity properly, and to extant, keep the plate too cool, etc etc etc..... I would get a bit of a messy sprue and an ill filled out bullet.
To try and quantify this, I weighed a heap of bullets I cast when I wasn't as attentive to the temp/sprue/conspiracy and noted the ranges of weights.
I did it again with a batch of bullets that I WAS attentive too.
In the end, the second batch was of higher visual quality, less rejects, and weighed more closely to one another.
So what was my general take away from this?
Keeping the mold temp up and steady of course leads to higher quality bullets. My canary in the mineshaft is the bullet themselves. quick survey of the bullets as they hit the towel to cool told me roughly where I was. Too cool, too hot and so on. The sprue activity also helps me supervise this. Too hot, the sprue puddle is like a bead of mercury on a sheet of glass, too cool, too sluggish and so on.
Watch, observe and learn!
Or as my dad always said, "pay attention to what you are doing!"
Great thread by the way. This is mucho great info.
Excellent comments. Watching the sprue and how long it takes to harden tells much about mould temp. Speeding up or slowing down the casting cadence will let you stay in the proper range.
I find it is hard to cast small bullets too fast and big bullets must go slow. I have a 6 cav Lee group buy mould for a 415 gr 45-70 bullet that can get way too hot in a hurry.
Rick once mentioned to me to think of it as pouring heat into the mould, not lead. Thinking in those terms helped me better understand what was happening and I now get better bullets.
I also found that casting with the pot a bit cooler, 700 F instead of 720 F, helped me prevent over heating the mould. Less heat was being added to the mould each pour.
I find it is hard to cast small bullets too fast and big bullets must go slow. I have a 6 cav Lee group buy mould for a 415 gr 45-70 bullet that can get way too hot in a hurry.
Rick once mentioned to me to think of it as pouring heat into the mould, not lead. Thinking in those terms helped me better understand what was happening and I now get better bullets.
I also found that casting with the pot a bit cooler, 700 F instead of 720 F, helped me prevent over heating the mould. Less heat was being added to the mould each pour.
Ian
Notorious member
Good post there.
We must be brothers or cousins, my dad always told me that too, verbatim. Turns out it's a learned skill that helps in all aspects of life. Today I hear a lot about "situational awareness" and colors to represent alertness levels and I feel sorry for those who, as adults now, are learning the importance of "paying attention" for the first time.
smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
Like Winelover, I've never felt the need nor desire to get too technical with my casting. I do play with the alloy a little. Obviously don't want to be shooting a bullet out of the Trapdoor that's too hard or a bullet that's too soft out of the 03 Springfield. But, when casting, if the bullet is wrinkled or not filled out, it goes back in the pot and temp may go up 10-20 degrees and/or casting cadence speeds up. Looks good gets loaded, frosty, gets loaded.
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
I'm still learning after a number of years but when I pick up a certain mould the "Force" now takes over & shortly I get to it's sweet spot
I actually find this amazing!... to jump from one mould to the next and be able to remember what I need to do ( geeze don't tell my wife!!!)
( And as long as it it isn't a brass mould!!! We do not get along. I had one for one week ( Mihec) Hated it, got rid of it, not worth the hassel Tinned like a S obee!)
I actually find this amazing!... to jump from one mould to the next and be able to remember what I need to do ( geeze don't tell my wife!!!)
( And as long as it it isn't a brass mould!!! We do not get along. I had one for one week ( Mihec) Hated it, got rid of it, not worth the hassel Tinned like a S obee!)
Ian
Notorious member
I find that the brass moulds do best with a very light haze of butane lighter soot on them. Not black, light brown at most. Do this on the first pour and re-apply every 50 pours or so for the first few sessions and lead won't stick to them. Also, don't put too much tin in your mix.
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
Ah! extra tin…I do run with about 2 percent add'l tin.
I probably did soot the mold a bit but it may have been too late by then
Well the way I look at it; it was just eye candy when I bought it & I really didn't need another .357 mag mould..so I don't miss it.
Also never did get those bullets to shoot as well as some of my other moulds.
But good words of wisdom just incase I ever give it to another one
I probably did soot the mold a bit but it may have been too late by then
Well the way I look at it; it was just eye candy when I bought it & I really didn't need another .357 mag mould..so I don't miss it.
Also never did get those bullets to shoot as well as some of my other moulds.
But good words of wisdom just incase I ever give it to another one
I doubt 2% Sn will hurt anything brass or not. I use 2% Sn in all of my alloy and have no problems with tinning of molds. I also never smoke a mold, just never saw a need for it. IF smoking the mold does any good it's only covering up some other problem. Seems best to figure out what that problem may be and fix it as opposed to using Band-Aids.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Almost all of my most recent mould purchases have been brass....I only buy aluminum if it is not offered in brass. Prior to that, I only used iron two cavities moulds. Don't do any thing to new moulds, other than a through cleaning and heat cycling. With use, brass will develop a patina. Never had any tin buildup and I am pretty heavy handed when it comes to adding tin. I have more tin/solder than I'll ever use....being a retired pipefitter.
Ian
Notorious member
Smoke protects while the patina develops. I've done the pre-heat thing a few times and still soldered the hell out of a few moulds. Too much tin will do it if you cast really hot (light frost on bullets). The only ones that did NOT solder were ones I smoked and used low-tin alloy, and one of Miha's that I toasted with direct propane flame prior to use. My mileage, of course.
James W. Miner
Active Member
Just a holdover from CB site. easier then typing cast bullets or jacketed.
James W. Miner
Active Member
One of my breakthrough moments in casting bullets was watching the sprue harden. Specifically, watching the mold draw metal in from the sprue puddle as the bullet began to solidify.
True but wrong, a sprue will harden before the boolit has enough lead. To draw from a sprue means it must be very hot. Not hardly so I feed molten lead to the boolit from a ladle. Or you can pour half a pot on the plate.
I heat molds to 500 before starting. I heat soak so plates are also hot.
True but wrong, a sprue will harden before the boolit has enough lead. To draw from a sprue means it must be very hot. Not hardly so I feed molten lead to the boolit from a ladle. Or you can pour half a pot on the plate.
I heat molds to 500 before starting. I heat soak so plates are also hot.
62chevy
Active Member
I stopped using my Coleman stove because it got the lead to hot, 750+, and went back to my hot plate I started casting with 3 years ago. A huge difference and was able to cast faster because the mold didn't over heat. Even with a wind break for the hot plate it only got to about 650 +/- but still hot enough cast nice bullets.