Movie set death

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Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Reading and understanding what you are saying doesn't mean people aren't still going to opine on the situation Charles. Cases like this where a blatantly liberal, anti-gun blowhard gets entirely different treatment than Joe Sixpack would are destined to bring out peoples frustration with a two tiered system.
 
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Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
Reading and understanding what you are saying doesn't mean people aren't still going to opine on the situation Charles. Cases like this where a blatantly liberal, anti-gun blowhard gets entirely different treatment than Joe Sixpack would are destined to bring out peoples frustration with a two tiered system.
Opining is great unless it is stated as fact. Opinions are like body orifices' as we know. Assumptions are just another form of opinion. At this point, nobody has any reason to think that New Mexico will give Baldwin any different treatment than Joe Sixpack. I doubt there will be a two tiered system, but time will tell.

This whole thing is starting to remind of a a mob outside a courthouse chanting "No Justice, No Peace". They don't care about the facts or the law, they just want somebody they hate crucified. There have been cases in recent memory, where mob hate has pushed prosecutors into filing charges where none were justified under the law. I find this whole rush to judgment stuff, not only to be wrong, but unAmerican as well. The Rule of Law should and most likely will prevail even though many may not like the outcome. It was Superman that stood for "truth, justice and the American way" and so do I. My wife tells me I am the last Boy Scout, but so be it. Through some time warp or quirk of nature, I have managed to hang on to my ideals and principals through all I have seen and experienced. Onward and upward!!
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
Trial by public opinion ....... I believe we have had a couple of such cases recently .

The facts are simple .
A firearm under ABs control was discharged and a person died while another was injured .
There were lapses and or breaks in the safety chain .
Final scene set up checks weren't made .

You know Goose wasn't supposed to die in top gun . But they had it all on film where the canopy failed to break away for the ejection seat shot . It was a no fault accident , and it stayed in the film .

Brandon Lees death stayed more or less in the movie , it is about an even split on failure of safety chain and 3rd party sabotage .

There are a handful of people that know exactly what happened , it's likely that at least a few of are in a state of shock or denial , a couple that that are still trying to figure out how it got past them that believe it is in part their fault , the responsible parties and the one that's going to take the fall .

It was either a careless accident or a deliberate act . This is what needs to be discovered . Even if it looks deliberate by way of motive and means it could have still been a careless accident ........it could have almost as easily been a deliberate act and AB just happens to be the poor sod stuck in the middle .

I think at this point in the Hippo crisis we all agree that there was an ND and ultimately AB both because of his role in the act and his staff position that he is infact responsible either by finance or action . Between the 30 or so lawyer's nobody will do time and everyone but AB will get paid .......he might even get paid now that I'm thinking about all of the potential insurance possibilities .
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Charles, if Joe Sixpack had done what Baldwin did he would be in jail. I've seen it first hand a couple times. No if's, and's or but's about it. Liberal privilege don'tcha know.
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
New Mexico has a financial interest in appearing to be on the side of the motion picture industry. New Mexico is a prime destination for location shooting of movies.
Several John Wayne movies were shot there. I remember "Red Dawn" was shot in Las Vegas, NM. "Brokeback Mountain", "Silverado", "The Cowboys", "The Grapes of Wrath", "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" and a whole raft of others have been shot in NM.

I have trouble believing that Hollywood money will not be a factor in the pursuit of settling this matter.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
........, if Joe Sixpack had done what Baldwin did he would be in jail. I've seen it first hand a couple times. No if's, and's or but's about it. Liberal privilege don'tcha know.
I completely disagree with this assumption.

One: it is just that – an assumption about unknown events. There's no evidence that "Joe Sixpack" would be treated any different than Baldwin despite your assumptions to the contrary

Two: Take the same facts surrounding this event and replace the name Alec Baldwin with the name Tom Selleck and ask yourself if you would still be demanding his crucifixion. I share your intense dislike for Balwin but I would perfer rule of law over a rush to judgement.

Baldwin has received NO special treatment based on WHO he is. He is being afforded the same investigation that any actor in that situation would receive. I see no evidence that he is being treated special.

Actors on sets and stage routinely point guns at other people. They sometimes even fire blanks from those guns while they are pointed at other people. Those actors trust others to keep the set safe. Enormous amounts of safety protocols are in place to avoid the type of tragedy we see in this case but sometimes, there are failures and even deaths. The safety failures in this case resulted in a homicide but NOT ALL HOMICIDES ARE CRIMES.

There is ZERO evidence of malice here, so murder is off the table.

That leaves manslaughter or an accidental death as the only other possibilities given the facts known at this time.

One person killing another person can be an accident that doesn’t rise to a manslaughter charge. Just because someone dies at the hands of another doesn’t mean the elements to support a manslaughter charge always exist. There are situations where an accidental death is not a manslaughter.

An actor, on a movie set, that responsibly relies on others, such as an armorer and an assistant director to ensure the weapon is safe; is not behaving recklessly to the point that the resulting death meets the elements of manslaughter.

Is there an enormous amount of civil liability on the set? YEP, Tons of it. And I see no evidence that the people involved will escape that civil liability.

In 2015 Six Baltimore police officers were charged with crimes in relation to the death of Freddy Grey. Those charges were placed by an overzealous, politically motivated prosecutor named Marilyn Mosby. That extreme rush to judgement resulted in a grand total of ZERO criminal convictions. Five of those six officers later sued Mosby for malicious prosecution. That case is a prime example of emotion overriding facts.
 
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Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Just out of curiosity Petrol, how many motion picture/TV locations, filming sets have you been on?
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Two

And one involved a staged explosion and helicopters. No one was injured. (the making of Toy Soldiers)
Since we’re asking questions, perhaps you can answer this one:

How many times have you seen an actor, rehearsing a scene that required he or she point a gun at another actor or crew member, and NO ONE was hurt?

An actor pointing a gun, maybe firing banks, on a set is NOT the same thing as someone not involved in a theatrical production that points a gun at someone, kills that person and later claims they believed the gun was unloaded.

One instance is a part of a theatrical production that involves a great deal of safety procedures to guard against the loss of life and the other is an act so reckless that the resulting death is manslaughter.

WHERE those actions take place have bearing on the recklessness involved. Theatrical productions are not the same thing as the world outside of a theatrical production.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Charles--

That second paragraph in Post #120 CRACKED ME UP. Thank you for bringing some welcome laughter to my Sunday.
 

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
Well in Mexico, India and many others countries, the cops arrest everybody standing around the crime scene and take them in for questioning. If they the police think they are not getting truthful answers, they beat the person until her or she fesses up or they are convinced of their innocence.

I have not been a cop, but I have been a prosecutor and criminal defense attorney. The facts of the Rust movie shooting would not justify an immediate arrest. The criminal liability of anyone has yet to be established. These days if the cops throw somebody in jail without substantial proof, they and their department will be facing a "false imprisonment" law suit. The police have an evidentiary threshold they much meet before they can arrest and charge a person.

In another life, I was an Investigator with Burns Security in Houston. We deal mainly with Industrial Sabotage and Industrial theft, of both physical property and what would now be called Trade Secrets or Intellectual Property. We had many large corporate clients and these Industrial crimes were rampant even back then (Mid 60s).

Companies film in New Mexico to avoid paying union labor prices. The cameramen were union and walked off the set over pay, housing and safety issues the morning of the shooting. I would not be surprised if some union person dropped a handful of live rounds in the supply of blank and dummy rounds just to create problem for the production. I did not say they did, but it would be an avenue of inquiry for law enforcement. However those whose responsibility it was for the safety of that handgun didn't catch the live round.
 
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Given the parties involved in this matter, it would not surprise me to see this matter brought before a Grand Jury for an indictment, instead of the usual process of filed complaint and arrest warrant.
 
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