Movie set death
- Thread starter richhodg66
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CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Here's a link to the actual search warrant.
The details concerning the event start on page 4.
The details concerning the event start on page 4.
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Elric
Well-Known Member
Finally, this might be something real [warrant].
Page 4
"During the filming of the movie, the Assistant Director (Dave Halls,) grabbed one of three "prop-guns" that was set-up by the Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez), which was on a cart. The cart is a gray in color rolling table with two layers and was left outside of the structure due to COVID 19 restrictions."
Not adding more heresay to this. I wonder what the procedures were for this. Not enough information on how the weapons were identified as to status, unloaded, blanks, or whatever. If this document can believed, the cart was outside.
I have never worked any kind of a theatric performance or a movie. Don't know industry procedures. So my preferences for weapons handling don't quite apply. Seems reasonable that there will be an exhaustive re-creation of the selection of prop-weapons. Determination if they will be loaded with dummies or blanks. Placing them on the cart. Control of said props over to the vicinity of the filming. Control of the loaded cart.
If someone said to me "Cold Gun", I'd still open the cylinder or rack the action.
Page 4
"During the filming of the movie, the Assistant Director (Dave Halls,) grabbed one of three "prop-guns" that was set-up by the Armorer (Hannah Gutierrez), which was on a cart. The cart is a gray in color rolling table with two layers and was left outside of the structure due to COVID 19 restrictions."
Not adding more heresay to this. I wonder what the procedures were for this. Not enough information on how the weapons were identified as to status, unloaded, blanks, or whatever. If this document can believed, the cart was outside.
I have never worked any kind of a theatric performance or a movie. Don't know industry procedures. So my preferences for weapons handling don't quite apply. Seems reasonable that there will be an exhaustive re-creation of the selection of prop-weapons. Determination if they will be loaded with dummies or blanks. Placing them on the cart. Control of said props over to the vicinity of the filming. Control of the loaded cart.
If someone said to me "Cold Gun", I'd still open the cylinder or rack the action.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Yessir, that is you, me, and the other folks on this site. Firearms are integral parts of our lifestyle, folkways, and culture. We respect their potential to do good work and to create havoc, and take steps to maximize the former while guarding against the latter. Other people don't have that reflex built into them, and are somewhat clueless in varying degrees. THAT is why safety protocols are established and adhered to at any setting that unfamiliar people and firearms are gathered at the same time and place.
Other folks familiar with film set protocols have detailed the standards of care and practice in place in the film-making industry. Someone or several parties will be held liable if those standards were not adhered to. For my part--as a retired law officer--the irony of seeing Alec Baldwin very likely on the hook for a truckload of money over the death and wounding of site personnel with a firearm, after that same Baldwin has stridently called for the imprisonment, loss of pension rights, and castigation of law officers who projected lethal force in an attempt to simply survive until the end of their shifts during exchanges of finality--is karma running over his dogma to a delicious degree. There is no reason on earth why that 42 year old cinematographer should be dead and gone, or her assistant be lying in hospital wounded, other than a cascade of negligence occurring in a storm of chaos surrounding the making of this film. That much can be easily discerned from a review of that search warrant affidavit, and although I am not familiar with New Mexico law I am well-acquainted with both California law and Federal law. In my experience, you seek a subpoena to obtain evidence for a civil/tort law case; you seek a search warrant to obtain evidence for a criminal offense.
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
CZ93x62 is right on the money.
What WE would do is totally different from what most actors would do.
Actors place trust in prop masters and armorers. Actors are generally not “Gun People”.
While it would be incomprehensible for most members of this forum to point a gun at someone they were not prepared to shoot, that same rule doesn’t apply to actors on a set. Actors routinely point guns at people on sets. Those actors transfer that personal gun handling responsibility to other individuals (prop masters, armorers, and apparently assistant directors).
It is NOT rules for us and Rules for them. It is rules in the real world and rules on a Movie or TV set. The actors aren’t “special” they are simply in a different arena during the theatrical production of a movie or show. The rules are different but not because of who they are but rather because of WHERE they are at the time.
So while nearly every member of this forum would likely open the action and confirm the gun was unloaded, loaded with blanks or loaded with dummy rounds - most actors would not behave the same way. They place great trust in others to ensure the gun is safe.
What WE would do is totally different from what most actors would do.
Actors place trust in prop masters and armorers. Actors are generally not “Gun People”.
While it would be incomprehensible for most members of this forum to point a gun at someone they were not prepared to shoot, that same rule doesn’t apply to actors on a set. Actors routinely point guns at people on sets. Those actors transfer that personal gun handling responsibility to other individuals (prop masters, armorers, and apparently assistant directors).
It is NOT rules for us and Rules for them. It is rules in the real world and rules on a Movie or TV set. The actors aren’t “special” they are simply in a different arena during the theatrical production of a movie or show. The rules are different but not because of who they are but rather because of WHERE they are at the time.
So while nearly every member of this forum would likely open the action and confirm the gun was unloaded, loaded with blanks or loaded with dummy rounds - most actors would not behave the same way. They place great trust in others to ensure the gun is safe.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
There are all sorts of wild, feverish speculations and bloviations seeing printers ink and online bandwidth concerning this incident. Such is Planet Hollyweird. We shall see how this all shakes out in due time. The meme generators have been working overtime on FB and elsewhere, and the stuff being posted ranges from rancid to caustic. I try to keep in mind that a 42 year old wife and mom lost her life here, and another crew member sustained a critical injury as well.
Charles Graff
Moderator Emeritus
The only real rule, is that if you shoot somebody intentionally that is a crime. If you shoot somebody unintentionally that may be a crime, but certainly will be cause for a civil suit.
There are no rules for gun safety than can be enforced in a court of law, only customs and practices of various groups.
There are no rules for gun safety than can be enforced in a court of law, only customs and practices of various groups.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
If I shot someone and said, "I didn't know the gun was loaded.", I would be sitting in jail pending Grand Jury action. I fail to see why the same doesn't apply to a left wing celebrity who made his mark insulting President Tru.............oh........okay, now I understand.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Not true
If you shot someone because you REALLY belieived the gun was unloaded AND that event occured on a movie set after the assitant director handed you the gun and declared it was a "Cold Gun" (as is the industry practice) ....it is likely you would not be "sitting in jail".
Baldwin didn't avoid arrest because of WHO he is. He avoided arrest because of the circumstances surrounding the shooting and WHERE he was at the time.
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
It is clear that many people on this forum do not like Alec Baldwin.
I SHARE THAT DISLIKE OF BALDWIN.
I cannot stand the guy and think he is the lowest of creatures.
HOWEVER, despite my intense dislike of the man, I see NO evidence that he acted with malice. And while it is clear that safety procedures were likely violated, I see no evidence that Baldwin personally acted with gross negligence, IN THAT Setting, with those facts.
In his role as the actor that fired the fatal shot, he will likely escape civil liability.
In his role as the producer, he will likely have tremendous exposure to liability.
But no amount of money will bring that wife and mother back.
I SHARE THAT DISLIKE OF BALDWIN.
I cannot stand the guy and think he is the lowest of creatures.
HOWEVER, despite my intense dislike of the man, I see NO evidence that he acted with malice. And while it is clear that safety procedures were likely violated, I see no evidence that Baldwin personally acted with gross negligence, IN THAT Setting, with those facts.
In his role as the actor that fired the fatal shot, he will likely escape civil liability.
In his role as the producer, he will likely have tremendous exposure to liability.
But no amount of money will bring that wife and mother back.
telebasher
Member
Just thinking, wonder if with all the bad feelings on the set , Mr Baldwin was set up . Still no excuse for not checking to see if loaded and with what !
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Negligence itself is not usually criminally-actionable. Gross negligence can be. Intent and malice aforethought figure highly in this equation--both can be implied if a course of conduct is deemed grossly negligent given standards of practice in a given discipline or field.
Most of this stuff is meat for the lawyers, though.
Most of this stuff is meat for the lawyers, though.
JonB
Halcyon member
While I have posted a few links, I haven't given my opinion yet here, but I have done so on FB. It's a bit edgy, but be that as it may, here goes...
The short version is,
I don't feel the least bit of sorrow for those who were shot. I think what happened on set could have been easily foreseen by anyone after the many things that happened prior to the fatal shooting.
While Alec is a skilled actor, if you ever seen or heard him while he is not acting (in real life), you quickly see he is a royal Jackwagon and a stupid one at that (this is beyond his politics and is widely known by all reasonable people who have had interactions with him). Honestly anyone working for him on his film...yes it's "His" film, deserves what they get. It's been reported that among other things, there have been a couple Accidental discharges (firearms) prior to Thursday's Homicide. Also, the camera crew walked off the set more than once, in protest to poor safety practices and other reasons. There have been numerous complaints to the Producers, who allegedly refused to fix the problems. Alec's company is Lead Producer. Would you stay on a Movie set with those issues? I surely wouldn't.
The short version is,
I don't feel the least bit of sorrow for those who were shot. I think what happened on set could have been easily foreseen by anyone after the many things that happened prior to the fatal shooting.
While Alec is a skilled actor, if you ever seen or heard him while he is not acting (in real life), you quickly see he is a royal Jackwagon and a stupid one at that (this is beyond his politics and is widely known by all reasonable people who have had interactions with him). Honestly anyone working for him on his film...yes it's "His" film, deserves what they get. It's been reported that among other things, there have been a couple Accidental discharges (firearms) prior to Thursday's Homicide. Also, the camera crew walked off the set more than once, in protest to poor safety practices and other reasons. There have been numerous complaints to the Producers, who allegedly refused to fix the problems. Alec's company is Lead Producer. Would you stay on a Movie set with those issues? I surely wouldn't.
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