New Combat Tupperware

[Will]

I have always had a slight infatuation with 357 sig. So when I ran across this Glock 31 on gunbroker I couldn’t resist.

https://imgur.com/eEtZtwf

Added my favorite Glock sights. Dawson Precision all steel fiber optics.

https://imgur.com/VVbUUJd

I started out by loading some 115gr Hornady HAP’s with power pistol. They looked good across the chronograph.

https://imgur.com/yA2gZyL

I plan to give the MP 124gr HP bullet a try soon.Still on the fence about needing lots of neck tension and using powder coating. I will have to do a lot of testing before I trust it.

 

[Matt]

The .357 SiG is a kick. In my experience it does need heavy neck tension and a good crimp regardless of bullet type, though I’ve used very few cast bullets in the 357 SIG. it will be interesting to see experiments with PC

 

[CZ93X62]

No reloading of the 357 SIG, though the caliber fascinates me. The thought of 16 rounds (full-up) of a 357 Magnum-equivalent loading is pretty darn good. I have some 40 S&Ws laying around that can accommodate the round with a barrel swap; might do it some day.

I have LOTS of experience with the 30 Luger and the 30 Mauser/7.62 x 25 Tokarev. Those tiny necks are a PITA with some brass, Starline has surprised me with its cooperative attitude. Bullets are best retained by a light roll crimp into a groove or cannelure, but you have to be careful about crimp vigor--too much crimp will cause the case mouth/neck to spring away from the bullet sidewall.

As I understand it, the 357 SIG is meant to headspace on the case mouth rather than on its case shoulder. That would seem to argue against roll-crimping.

Neck-and-shoulder pistol rounds are not common, and there could be very good reasons for that--chief among those being that reloading for them is an exercise in esoteric masochism and something of a PITA. The long-term users of these rounds (Soviet Union and the ChiComs) use(d) some combination of stab-crimping and sealant-gluing to anchor bullets in case necks. The Makarov is a simple delight to reload for, comparatively speaking.

It might be interesting to see how powder-coating gets along with these tiny-necked cartridges as well.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I shoot LEE 358-125's powder coated in my lil sigs. They love them!!

CW

 

[Ian]

357 Sig (like all the bottlenecked pistol cartridges) always seemed like a good idea to me, but since I already have a .38 Super I never got one.

 

[Hawk]

I had a LEO friend give me 650 pieces of once fired SIG brass. Apparently, that's what the SWAT team uses and he collected the brass for me from a training exercise.
I always meant to buy a barrel for my Glock Model 22, but never did.
I'm watching this with great interest.

 

[Will]

I’ll cast some bullets next week hopefully then give it a try.
I’m shocked by how little recoil the 357 sig has while turning in such high velocity. Those 1500fps loads felt like +P 9MM

 

[CZ93X62]

The 357 SIG seems really popular with TX and NM agencies and personnel. Will's results with those 115 grain bullets are IMPRESSIVE.

 

[RicinYakima]

I have followed this round for many years. It seems that with the light weight bullets, it is close to the 125 grain 357 load from a 4" revolver.

 

[CZ93X62]

Ric--Yeah, pretty much a dead heat. I recall YEARS AGO my shop clocked some in Glock 22s with swap 357 SIG barrels. The ammo (Speer Lawman 124 grain, IIRC) ran between 1425-1450 FPS. My 686 x 4" shoots same same-o with the Federal #357B that FBI praises so thickly. It is quite a round. The hitch in the git-along was that 357 SIG ammo was not on the State contract at that time, which reduces ammo costs markedly. So at work it kind of died on the vine. In retirement, I can carry largely anything I want--but I stick to Coin Of The Realm in caliber and load ID#.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

When ya load it, think rifle cartridge. I head space off the SHOULDER then trim to app lengths. I had to modify my shell holder to get my loads to chamber. But then got too thin so I turned some off the die and less off a sexond shell holder.
Very pleased with the preformance and accuracy is also top shelf!! I like that 125 LEE and a 140g Saeco made for the Super and a 135 RD from NOE all work well too.

 

[358156 hp]

I haven't settled on one firm bullet weight. I have a number of 9mm moulds so I have plenty to work with. If I only could have one, it would likely be the Ranch Dog 135 gr PB from NOE. It feeds well in everything except my 9mm M&P Compact. I like the big meplat, and other than the afore mentioned M&P, feeding has been excellent. I PC pretty much everything anymore, and final size to .357. Lessee, I "bulge bust" the cases after initial tumbling in a gutted 40 S&W LEE FC die, then load normally with a Hornady die set. I crimp the cases using a LEE collet type factory crimp die and call it good.

MY 357 SIG has been happy with these loads from the beginning, so I haven't tried to improve anything. Most of the once fired 357 SIG cases on the market appear to be LEO nickel plated Speer. These cases have a small, small, flash hole so the flash holes get reamed. All told, I still hate nickel cases, but they're cheaper than new brass. The truth be told, I probably don't need to bulge bust my cases, but I added this information 'cause you have a Glock .

At the range, it's really obvious when I switch from shooting 9mm over to .357. 9mms on steel go "pop", "ting!", and 357s go "boom", "bong!!!" That calls for another smiley .

 

[Hawk]

While the Glock 22 and 27 are my everyday carry guns, depending upon weather and clothing, I also carry them on the deer lease. We have a lot of big Hogs on the lease and they have re-introduced black bears into the area.
Haven't seen any signs of the Bears yet, but no telling when you're going to run across a herd of hogs.
I've got a 10 mm Glock 20 that I carry occasionally but it's kind of heavy, and won't fit in the same holster as the Glock 22 and 27.
The 357 Sig sounds very appealing for this type of carry. The only issue on the deer lease is the standard 125 grain Bullet.
I would be anxious to see what it would do or if it it's even possible to load a heavier bullet, just in case a 400 lb boar comes charging out of the brush!

 

[Will]

From my previous experience with 357 sig it loses its appeal when bullets heavier than 130gr are loaded. Just don’t have the case capacity.

147gr .355 bullets in the 357 sig aren’t much better than 9mm

 

[CZ93X62]

From my previous experience with 357 sig it loses its appeal when bullets heavier than 130gr are loaded. Just don’t have the case capacity.

147gr .355 bullets in the 357 sig aren’t much better than 9mm

IIRC, the design spec of the 357 SIG was to match the performance of the 125 grain 357 Magnum (Federal #357B) load. It seems to do that capably. You just KNOW that A Crank Like Me would have 140-160 grain bullets loaded for his 357 SIG within a week after acquisition, and chronography conducted most ricky-tick.

The Size Of The Boiler Room makes a difference, for certain--esp. as bullet gets heavier-for-caliber. The 308 is less able to run 180grain+ bullets at the speeds a 30-06 or 300 Win Mag can produce. Eyeball exam seems to show that the 357 Magnum case has more powder capacity than does the 357 SIG, perhaps someone has ballistic software that bears this out.

 

[Hawk]

Also, does the 357 SIG bullet have a different ogive from the 9mm and .357 Mag?
That is, is the SIG bullet more squatting or can bullets cast for the .357 be used, as in 140 gr. or 160 gr. Veral Smith WFN bullets or MP 140 gr. Pentas, made for the .357.

 

[358156 hp]

Here's some factory ammo gel testing. I have loaded cast 147s, but never chrono'd them. Also remember that factory performance numbers are manipulated by the ammo companies. You'll see Hornady ammo showing the same velocities for the 135 & 147 gr. loads. This is not a coincidence by any means. Factory ammo, at least by the companies that also sell their bullets is tweaked to put the bullet & load to the point that their testing indicates their idea of the best performance of their bullets. This is very common in the industry, and there is nothing even the least bit wrong about it, it's just one of the test parameters. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/357-sig-gel-test/

For contrast, here's 9mm gel testing from the same source, do note that they are shooting the 9mm from a shorter barrel. BTW, my carry gun is identical to their 9mm test gun, a happy coincidence: https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm

 

[RBHarter]

Grins and giggles . In the Speer #12 there is an article in the middle between rifle and pistol data called "Why Balistians get gray" (grey?) . They ran as I recall a basic 38 or 357 load ......I think it was 38 Special , through 20 test available revolvers (may have been 30) , Colts , S&A and Ruger I think are represented in barrels from 1-1/2 to at least 6" . Now it's been a long time since I even looked at it and I don't have the picture in this phone anymore . It was a surprise to see a snubbie out run a 4" and a sequencial pair of 4" separated by nearly 100 fps .
If someone has a copy maybe you could post it . I'm setting in my box until midnight ....... Love a job that pays me to do next to nothing .

 

[CZ93X62]

I perused 357 SIG load data for the first time in a long while. It looks like the cartridge can sling 124-125 grain j-words in the 1400-1450 FPS ballpark, and the 147 grain JHPs get about 1175-1225. This last is a bit under the 357 Magnum's work with the Silvertip HP/145 grains, which attain 1275-1300 FPS from 4" barrels. A 147 running at 1200 FPS is decent, just the same--and 16 at the ready beats 6-7 all hollow.

 

[358156 hp]

357 SIG has plenty of power available. There have been statements that 9mm +P is just as good, but I'm not seeing it. 9mm +P+ is interesting, but very had to find, and I don't think you'll be able to buy it at your local store like you can with 357 SIG in many areas.

Hawk- while some 9mm bullets can be used successfully in 357 SIG, not all of them are suitable. The primary design to watch out for have a fairly long ogive profile and simply can't be crimped securely and maintain the proper cartridge overall length (COL).