New pistol!

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
Michigan use to require a purchase permit..........good for 10 days. Nominal charge of the cost of fingerprints, IIRC. PITA, in Wayne County (Detroit area) unless you were a member of the fairer sex.
 

USSR

Finger Lakes Region of NY
Brad,

I'm assuming you mean no State background check. You still have to fill out a 4473 and have a Federal background check done, right?

Don
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
Brad,

I'm assuming you mean no State background check. You still have to fill out a 4473 and have a Federal background check done, right?

Don
In Michigan the Concealed Carry permit shows you passed the federal requirement. You still fill out the form 4473, but the computer check (including fingerprinting) has already been done.
 

USSR

Finger Lakes Region of NY
Not talking about finger printing. When you fill out the 4473, then the ATF is contacted either online or by phone where a background check is done by them so as to give approval to the dealer to complete the sale.

Don
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
I just checked. WE could buy without the Federal background check until the idiots in my state (Michigan) legalized recreational use of marijuana. Since then we are back in line waiting for the federal computer background check.
Michigan CPL holders were exempt from the federal NCIS check until then.
 
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USSR

Finger Lakes Region of NY
When you fill out that 4473, a NICS background check is done by the ATF - doesn't matter what state you are in, as it's a Federal Law, not a state law. From the FBI website:

"National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

The NICS conducts background checks on people who want to own a firearm or explosive, as required by law."

Don
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Not talking about finger printing. When you fill out the 4473, then the ATF is contacted either online or by phone where a background check is done by them so as to give approval to the dealer to complete the sale.

Don
Technically speaking, the FFL does not contact ATF to obtain approval to complete a transfer. The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), is operated by the FBI not the ATF. In some states, like Virginia, the state link to the NICS network is handled by the state police. In any event, the ATF is not directly involved in the approval process at the time of transfer.

In Virginia, the FFL must contact the state police to obtain the approval to complete the transfer (background check approval). That is generally done on-line and usually takes less than 5 minutes. It is often even quicker. If the state police doesn’t respond to the dealer within 5 business days, the dealer may transfer the gun without further delay. I don’t know if that has ever occurred but that provision may encourage the state to maintain the background check system and keep it running in good order. The default is to transfer the gun if the state fails to do their job.

 
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USSR

Finger Lakes Region of NY
True. The 4473 is a ATF form, but the NICS staff work for the FBI. In any case, a Federal background check is done whether it is directly or thru the handful of states that act as an intermediary between the FFL and the NICS folks.

Don
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Just to be clear, the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 (The Brady Law) modified the 1968 GCA. The federal law does not specifically mandate HOW the individual states comply with the provisions of the federal law. The states may choose to use the federal NICS system at the time of transfer (and many do), the states may allow a prior background check to suffice (usually a prior background check for a concealed weapons permit), the state may require a temporary purchase permit that is linked to a recent background check, the states may operate thier own interface with the NICS system and even add restrictions above the federal law requirements.

It all depends on where you are standing at the time of the transfer. Someone standing in Florida is going to come under different laws than someone standing in New Jersey.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
I bought my mother the 22rf one last year. She actually likes it better than her Browning HP. She keeps it by her bedside. I got her a laser pointer for it for mothers day. I just need to stop by and get her and go sight in for her.

I was there the other day and asked her what ammo she had for the 9mm. I still have that box you bought for me a long time ago. I said what just one box?? I went to the safe and seen a box half empty of rem um 115gr fmj. I went and told her I would bring over some more as she only had 1/2 a box. She then says, the r st are in the bottom of the safe under the towel.?? So I go back and look. There is a CASE minus the one box. I dont remember getting that for her. But she iinsist i did.

I looked at the case and it said $5.99/box in marker. I must have gotten that at a gun show years ago. Well she is set for ammo for a long time.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
We just went to no permits for background checks to carry or buy. You still fill out the 4473. But if you have a carry permit, the background check is already done so it does not have to be done again till the permit expires. If you dont have one then you are called in. If it is a pistol then you also have the 3 day waiting. But not with the permit, you walk out right there withe the handgun. But it is also up to the dealer if he will take the permit or not.

A bunch of states have made a contract with the fbi to do the background checks. The permits are part of the deal.
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
Actually the law empowers the ATF to set the guidelines of what constituted an adequate background check. Up until March 03, 2020 Michigan's CPL permit qualified as that background check. Once Michigan legalized marijuana for recreational use that "qualification" was revoked. I understand that there are other states that have been able to substitute a valid CCW/SPL permit in lieu of the NCIS check. (Ohio was one of them).
My last 3 or 4 firearm purchases (including 2 handguns) were done without the NCIS check. I haven't purchased one since the "qualification" was revoked.
I tried to post a link to the pdf of the notice sent by the Department of Justice of the revocation of the exemption. It has all the legalese and justification for both the exemptions that used to be in effect and the reasons for revoking it.

 
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Ian

Notorious member
I lieu of a CCW to bypass a point-of-sale NICS check, one can submit a request for permanent record retention to the ATF. Send in prints, passport photo, and forms and if you pass the check, they send you a PIN that when presented to the FFL satisfies the background check requirement for firearms purchased. By law, the information obtained by NICS is trashed after every approval, but the request allows them to keep your information on file where it is instantly accessible to firearms sellers.

In Texas, a valid CCW is still an instant pass to buy a gun. I suspect many will retain their CCW licenses for this benefit even though constitutional carry will go into effect in September.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
The need for a purchaser to fill out a form 4473 when acquiring a firearm from an FFL has existed since the creation of the 1968 Gun Control Act. That form needs to be completed when a firearm is transferred out of an FFL’s inventory.

Instant background checks are a more recent requirement. Initially the Brady Bill would have required a 5-day waiting period for handgun transfers, but the instant background check was the compromise to that part of the bill. The individual states took different approaches to meeting the background check requirement.

If you look at the map at the bottom of this webpage, you will see the various alternative methods adopted by different states.




Each state has passed laws concerning how guns are sold and transferred. The FBI maintains the electronic records for criminal histories and therefore, is the keeper of the NICS system. Some states simply require the FFL transferring a gun to access the NICS system directly and that satisfies the requirements of the Brady law. Some states choose to act as the intermediary between the FFL and the federally maintained NICS (Virginia is one) and they check additional state records at the same time as the federal check. Some states require the purchaser to obtain a background check before he/she attempts to purchase a gun and some states allow the background check associated with a carry permit to act as the background check for future purchases. States to not contract with the FBI to access the NICS but they do enact laws concerning transfers within their borders.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I lieu of a CCW to bypass a point-of-sale NICS check, one can submit a request for permanent record retention to the ATF. Send in prints, passport photo, and forms and if you pass the check, they send you a PIN that when presented to the FFL satisfies the background check requirement for firearms purchased. By law, the information obtained by NICS is trashed after every approval, but the request allows them to keep your information on file where it is instantly accessible to firearms sellers.

In Texas, a valid CCW is still an instant pass to buy a gun. I suspect many will retain their CCW licenses for this benefit even though constitutional carry will go into effect in September.
It ALL depends on what state you are in.
 
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Brad

Administrator
Staff member
In Michigan the Concealed Carry permit shows you passed the federal requirement. You still fill out the form 4473, but the computer check (including fingerprinting) has already been done.
Same here, the CCW takes the place of the haNd gun purchase permit.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Residing in New England
Up until a few years ago, showing you're pistol permit, was it (& 4473 & sp3)
Then the state instituted these checks. NO firearms can be transferred with out a state provided transfer number. SO if the "state" isnt open for what ever reason... no one transfers a firearm.

I got a call from the GS, & was able to pick up my Ruger.

CW
 

USSR

Finger Lakes Region of NY
Right you are, Bret. But, one nice thing (or bad) about NY is, they leave a lot of power with the county judge as far as policy goes. In my rural county, they give you a pistol permit paper that you can carry on you, so if you see a handgun you like, you can get it immediately. Other counties require you to get the handgun info (serial #, etc.) from the FFL, go to the county building and get the pistol permit paper, then go back to the FFL with it. Also, some counties won't issue you a concealed carry permit, and will specify it's for target shooting or hunting. Totally up to the judge in each county. My county automatically issues a concealed carry permit.

Don