Opinion

[Charles Graff]

so I am a little slow. Pls confirm I have this correct. The 45 Cowboy Special case will headspace/work in the Ruger 45 ACP cylinder. And with the heavier SWC (and I assume 454190 RN). Using 45 AR/45 ACP data as well? And the 45 Cowboy Special is just a short 45 Colt?

PS: AND - out of dumb curiosity... anybody know if the 45 Colt rifles (like a Henry) will cycle the 45 CS?

Affirmed. A new 45 CS case will need trip through a 45 ACP full length sizing die before it will slide into the 45 ACP cylinder.

 

[fiver]

maybe.
if you have one I'd pull out the feeler gauges and check your particular revolver.
I know some of the 30 carbine black hawks won't take 32-20 case and some of those will.
but your chances of the 45 cowboy case working are probably pretty high.

as far as cycling in a 45 colt lever-gun?
probably,, maybe?, some 357's don't like 38 specials, but I have cycled 375 super mags in a 375 Winchester rifle with no problems, didn't shoot worth crap,, but they cycled.

the 45 cowboy is actually a 45 acp case with a 45 colt rim on it.
kind of like an A/R case,, but dimensionally in the primer pocket, web, and rim different.
they might not cycle because of the OAL, AIRC the original rifles were fresh barrels reamed just a hair deep with a 45 acp reamer then a cut off 45 colt reamer was used to put the rim in.
the lifter had a new stop welded in place [and the frame rails on the 92's were modified so the rim notch was moved to time the rim slipping under the extractor properly]

 

[CZ93X62]

Yes, the S&W Model 940, stainless Centennial in 9mm Parabellum. I like mine ALOT!
Sights are on the money with 147s, gets 930 fps from 1-7/8" barrel with good expansion, left to right Winchester Ranger T-series, Winchester generic 147JHP "whitebox" and Federal 147 HST shot into water jugs at 7 yards.

View attachment 13271

930 FPS from a 1-7/8" barrel......the baby Glock 9mms (3-7/8" barrels) barely manage 900 FPS with my old shop's 147 JHPs (the WWB), and around 950-965 in my P-226. Very surprising velocity, and the expansion speaks for itself.

I fill that P-226 with Speer 124 grain Lawman Gold Dot +P, and they get 1220-1235 FPS from the 4.4" barrel. I wonder what kind of performance such loads would produce from the Model 940, if it is certified for +P or CIP-level 9mm ammo.

 

[StrawHat]

The Special is to the 45 long Colt as the 38 Special is to the 357 S&W Magnum. Same case, different lengths. Will it work in a lever action? Yes, with modifications to the firearm.

It was designed to be a competition legal cartridge that could utilize black or smokeless powder. The designer decided on the length based on available reloading dies. He also designed a carrier for certain lever actions to allow smooth cycling. You need ACP reloading dies but a 45 long Colt case holder. You can use ACP load data, if your firearm can handle it.

So, one set of dies (45 ACP) and three she’ll holders (45ACP, 45 long Colt and 45 Auto Rim) lets you reload three and maybe four cartridges.
I got a bunch to reload but found a good deal on 44 Colt cases and pursued that adventure.

Kevin

 

[Bret4207]

I guess I'm particularly dense today because I can't see what makes the 45CS sized to 45ACP dimensions any better than the 45AR. ????? Sounds to me like all your doing is messing up your CS brass. I must be missing something...as usual.

 

[Brad]

The 45 AR has a far thicker rim. The 45 CS is designed as a short 45 Colt, not a rimmed 45 ACP.

 

[alamogunr]

I have a .45ACP cylinder for my Freedom Arms 83. Lots of times that is all I care to shoot when I get it out. It stood me in good stead once when I tested a questionable powder in the ACP. Quite a bit overloaded but no problem in the FA. Had to pull a few bullets.

 

[Bret4207]

The 45 AR has a far thicker rim. The 45 CS is designed as a short 45 Colt, not a rimmed 45 ACP.

Okay, so then since the AR is perfect near as I can tell in a 45ACP wheelgun, why the recommendation to use the reformed CS? I'm missing something obvious here I think.

Alright, I went back an re-read Chargar post. He's specifically referencing SA guns. Is that where the CS comes in? In single actions? I don't think the AR works in a single action, does it? Just DA's built for moons?

 

[RBHarter]

That's correct .

 

[StrawHat]

Okay, so then since the AR is perfect near as I can tell in a 45ACP wheelgun, why the recommendation to use the reformed CS? I'm missing something obvious here I think.

Alright, I went back an re-read Chargar post. He's specifically referencing SA guns. Is that where the CS comes in? In single actions? I don't think the AR works in a single action, does it? Just DA's built for moons?

Correct, the Cowboy Special is for revolver chambered for the 45 long Colt or single actions chambered for the 45 ACP.

The 45 Auto Rim works in DA revolvers chambered for the 45 ACP.

edit to add, RBHarter types a more succint answer than I do.

Kevin

 

[RBHarter]

I'm occasionally quite verbose . Not always .

 

[RicinYakima]

NOT QUITE, in a 45 ACP cylinder. The thick rim will not fit in Ruger or SAA clones without turning the back of the cylinder off. S&W's are designed to use both ACP and AR.

 

[Ian]

Good grief. Just use .45 ACP brass in a single-action. If for some reason you think you need to roll crimp it, go ahead. I have an RCBS roll crimp die and it will not come close to crimping the case mouth small enough to enter a SAAMI revolver throat. The ONLY reason I can see ti use the cowboy brass in a revolver is to be able to share cartridges with a .45 Colt lever/pump rifle....but in that instance, why not just run .45 Colt brass and the matching cylinder?

 

[Bret4207]

Thanks, I'm rather dense at times.

 

[Ian]

@Bret4207 , I wasn't "good griefing" you, just the whole confusing mess of four different kinds of brass now available to do the job of the two that have been around for well over a hundred years and were both standard Army calibers. The other two are a solution looking for a problem IMO. If I didn't have moon clips for the Model 25, a fingernail, stick, nail, pen/pencil, or usually gravity alone suffices to remove the spent cases. .45 ACP has never needed more than the usual taper crimp in a revolver because the recoil is so mild, and if you do need a roll crimp, you can apply one just fine with no headspacing issues. .45 ACP brass does not grow in length with reoeated firings, in fact I have some that have been fired so many times that the headstamps have been completely peened away by 1911 ejector strikes and the have never gotten near the max of .898". No need for a rim, Father John Moses Browning knew exactly what he was doing. Cowboy Action Shooting doesn't involve reloads or DA revolvers afaik (unless Wild Bunch allows the 1917) so I miss the point if the .45 Cowboy cartridge entirely. The AR I can sort of see, but that defeats the economy of the .45 ACP DA revolver IMO.

 

[RicinYakima]

Cowboy Action Shooting doesn't involve reloads

It was the solution to folks trying to shoot 2.2 grains of Titegroup with 185 grain hard lead bullets in the 45 Colt case and getting them stuck in the barrel. I know it makes no sense, but that is what they were doing in the 1990's. Recoil slows you down if you are gaming the sport.

 

[Ian]

Well, thanks for the explanation. I thought recoil was why most "serious" cowboy gamers chose the .38 Special? Load light, cycle fast in the levers, heavier (comparatively thicker walled) barrels on the revolvers reduce flip even more.

 

[Bret4207]

Never took it as directed at me Ian. No worrys. I just missed the whole single action part of the conversation first time round.

 

[RicinYakima]

Well, thanks for the explanation. I thought recoil was why most "serious" cowboy gamers chose the .38 Special? Load light, cycle fast in the levers, heavier (comparatively thicker walled) barrels on the revolvers reduce flip even more.

.38's look wimpy in the cartridge belt.

 

[462]

A non-period cartridge with minimal to no recoil, but long of length to impress the competition. That seems a tough balancing act.