Over weight for caliber

[CWLONGSHOT]

Speaking on 350 Legend. I was able to send a few today. I made up a specail loading I have wanted to try for a few years.
I bought a few thousand ARX bullets some time back. A few calibers as cost was too low to resist. Some was .355/56g "flavor". Intended for 380/9mm loading.
Well, I thought I aughta be able ta get them moving pretty quick with a 45mm case!!!

On Lehigh Defense site I found data for a 68, 75 @ 115g bullet with Enforcer Powder. I extrapolated a safe charge then charged a case & decided to round down a lil more. Most Lehigh bullets ste solid Copper some are Brass most LWT ones are hollow based making for longer bearing surfaces. These ARX bullets are a amalgamation of Copper powder & Epoxy and probable something else. Not billed as pre fragmented but are a fluid technology projectile. Wearing three "flutes in the nose.

(PIC here)



My intention is to try these on Coyotes.

Anyhow, WOW, VERY ACCURATE, I did not chrono but they zip thro Shoot-N-See targets with just a hole. No "yellow ring". I shot five thro a 40-45 cal hole @ 100 yards !!!!!!!! Now ta find Wile...

 

[Elpatoloco]

The 50/70 will shoot side to side through a bison, so I don't need more than that. Except to get within 100 yards of them!

That 50/70 uses a Fat 50?
You are talkin crazy now. If I went with a .511 to .515 for that round, then the .500 Linebaugh would follow me home. If I played it correct, I coukd use the same moukd for both.
Its a sickness!

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Believe it if its over .502 its illegal ta hunt with here. Some lawmaker got it in amd it passed. I k ow countless who hunt with 54 cal BP even a few .58's never herd of them catching any flack. But the law is on our books.

CW

 

[Elpatoloco]

Speaking on 350 Legend. I was able to send a few today. I made up a specail loading I have wanted to try for a few years.
I bought a few thousand ARX bullets some time back. A few calibers as cost was too low to resist. Some was .355/56g "flavor". Intended for 380/9mm loading.
Well, I thought I aughta be able ta get them moving pretty quick with a 45mm case!!!

On Lehigh Defense site I found data for a 68, 75 @ 115g bullet with Enforcer Powder. I extrapolated a safe charge then charged a case & decided to round down a lil more. Most Lehigh bullets ste solid Copper some are Brass most LWT ones are hollow based making for longer bearing surfaces. These ARX bullets are a amalgamation of Copper powder & Epoxy and probable something else. Not billed as pre fragmented but are a fluid technology projectile. Wearing three "flutes in the nose.

(PIC here)

View attachment 38322View attachment 38323

My intention is to try these on Coyotes.

Anyhow, WOW, VERY ACCURATE, I did not chrono but they zip thro Shoot-N-See targets with just a hole. No "yellow ring". I shot five thro a 40-45 cal hole @ 100 yards !!!!!!!! Now ta find Wile...

View attachment 38324

Post some pics of the damage if you get to run one through a Song Dog. Very interesting.

 

[Elpatoloco]

Believe it if its over .502 its illegal ta hunt with here. Some lawmaker got it in amd it passed. I k ow countless who hunt with 54 cal BP even a few .58's never herd of them catching any flack. But the law is on our books.

CW

Well, Texas is Bassackwards. Any centerfire cartridge is legal for deer. 25acp to 50BMG.

Have see folks use 17 Remington. Not my cup o tea

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

If I was ta guess, 50 BMG was what someone was looking to restrict.

CW

 

[Elpatoloco]

If I was ta guess, 50 BMG was what someone was looking to restrict.

CW

You ever run and lower weight cast through the Legend? Your suggestion about gas checking the lee 358-158-rf got me to thinking. I dont know if itll even fit in the throat though. Will make a dummy round. Them guns chambered in it seem to have minimual throat.

 

[nanuk]

Have it your way if that make you feel warm & fuzzy.

So, mass is not applicable?

In space, your gun would have no effect?

Weight and mass are two different things.

 

[Rick]

So, mass is not applicable?

In space, your gun would have no effect?

Weight and mass are two different things.

Of course they are two different things but . . . You could have two different bullets, one twice the size of the other but only 25% the weight. The weight is where momentum comes from and is what carries the bullet through a target, not it's size.

In space there is no O2, would gun even go off?

 

[RicinYakima]

In space there is no O2, would gun even go off?

Yes. The required O2 is chemically bound in the primer compound and the powder.

 

[Snakeoil]

Read the first post that started this and then only read one or two more before replying. Throughout my professional career, I had a basic philosophy that the engineers that designed the gizmo, whatever it was, probably knew a lot more about what they were doing than somebody who happens to own that gizmo and thinks they have a better idea. Granted there have been some iffy gizmos put on the market over the years, but the vast majority of products, regardless of what they are, work pretty damn well for the intended role.

And that brings me to my 2 cents on this subject.

I'm no expert for sure. But I tend to believe that most commercial ammo is designed to cover a broad range of applications. Accuracy, reliability, firearm life, safety and energy imparted to the target. I think (might be wrong since I never took a hard look) that .22 RF is the only caliber that is commercially made as high grade target ammo. I would think that most if not all pistol ammo intended for target work is hand loaded and I suspect that the probability that for rifle target ammo is very close to if not 100%. So, commercial ammo is intended to be something used to kill or destroy something else. Therefore, the features of the ultimate load/bullet is based upon doing the most damage with reasonable but not match quality accuracy. So, in that light, I would agree with your opening statement 100%.

But if you change the application for the ammo, then I would argue that there might, or probably is a better load/bullet for that particular application. A good example would be benchrest or F-class shooting. I don't think you are going to set any records with commercial ammo made to the original specs for a given caliber. Same would be true for pistols. Target loads tend to be softer loads with less recoil and superb accuracy. A .44 mag in standard dress would not make a very good target load.

So, if you are saying that commercially made ammo that sticks to the original specs for that caliber is probably the best, I would have to agree, but only if you added to the sentence "probably the best at... X". Because if you make X target work, I would say that the statement is false.

I re-read your closing statement, and you might be just saying that trying to push the envelope for a given caliber is foolish. I would tend to agree with that, assuming that the case specs do not change. I guess you did not qualify what you meant by "We get tempted and want to improve on something that works at a loss of efficiency and in some cases safety and may produce a trajectory that our sights may not compensate for." If you mean hotter, then I think that any informed reloader would have to agree. But if improve means accuracy, then I would not agree. And since you mentioned the cowboy with the big hat, his love of .44 is what lead him to push the envelope and come up with the .44 mag. If I am not mistaken, he initially started down that path with the .45 Colt but knew he was pushing the limits of the revolvers chambered in that round.

 

[L Ross]

Believe it if its over .502 its illegal ta hunt with here. Some lawmaker got it in amd it passed. I k ow countless who hunt with 54 cal BP even a few .58's never herd of them catching any flack. But the law is on our books.

CW

Some times you just have to ignore stupidity. I've never even seen a Game Warden while deer hunting. I did call one to turn myself in then I shot a spike with skinny little 3" antlers while shooting a Rolling Block in 8 m/m Remington Danish. If I'd had a scoped rifle I'd probably seen the antlers in the brush. Anyway, I called the warden and he told me not to worry about it. He said if I was trying to sneak a big buck out of the woods he's be happy to cite me, but he said he could understand the spike. He laughed when I told him about the rifle.
My point is, even if you were visited by a Warden in the field do you supposed he/she would be carrying a micrometer?

 

[popper]

Only difference between mass and weight is 32 ft/sec/sec.

 

[Rick]

Yes. The required O2 is chemically bound in the primer compound and the powder.

Well, that would certainly make reading the wind easy.

 

[Snakeoil]

Yes. The required O2 is chemically bound in the primer compound and the powder.

Not to mention there is no resistance from the atmosphere and I suspect that the velocity of the bullet would far exceed any factory spec. Plus, it would tend to fly forever, more than likely in orbit around the Earth (if that is the planet above which it was fired) and would continue to orbit until gravity slowly pulled it down.

You could have two different bullets, one twice the size of the other but only 25% the weight.

Which means a change in materials or a void, like a hollowpoint, to the bullet design. If the material stays the same and you increase the length, diameter or both, mass and weight will increase. Mass and weight are the same on Earth. Somebody already eluded to this. Weight is just mass under the influence of gravity.

 

[nanuk]

Of course they are two different things but . . . You could have two different bullets, one twice the size of the other but only 25% the weight. The weight is where momentum comes from and is what carries the bullet through a target, not it's size.

In space there is no O2, would gun even go off?

No, MASS is where momentum comes from

in space, no weight, but momentum exists....

I think you have them backwards

 

[Rick]

No, MASS is where momentum comes from

in space, no weight, but momentum exists....

I think you have them backwards

Ok, here is the mathematical formula for . . . Momentum. Your task for today is to find the answer in mass.

Multiply the bullet weight in grains by the velocity at impact. Divide the product by 226,000 (a gravimetric Constant)
Example: 45 caliber 240 grain bullet 200 yard velocity of 985 fps. 240 x 985 = 236400 divided by 226,000 = 1.046 pound-seconds momentum.

Now give me the answer in pound-seconds of . . . MASS.

 

[nanuk]

Ok, here is the mathematical formula for . . . Momentum. Your task for today is to find the answer in mass.

Multiply the bullet weight in grains by the velocity at impact. Divide the product by 226,000 (a gravimetric Constant)
Example: 45 caliber 240 grain bullet 200 yard velocity of 985 fps. 240 x 985 = 236400 divided by 226,000 = 1.046 pound-seconds momentum.

Now give me the answer in pound-seconds of . . . MASS.

Ok... I'll play using your faulty mathematical formula to answer a bullet impact in space....
Hmmm... weight of bullet in grains = 0
multiply 0 by 1500 (fps at impact) = 0
divide 0 by 226,000 = 0

that was easy....

according to NASA, Momentum is defined to be the mass of an object multiplied by the velocity of the object

momentum is NOT Pound-Second, it is Kg-M/s

 

[RBHarter]

My torque wrench is calibrated in kgm² ftlb and NM ..... Most surely we can multiply the result by roughly 2.2 for the kilo to lbs and by roughly 10 to get from the ft² to m² ......to lazy to do 39.3²÷144 ....

Kinetic energy exchange from contact to zero doesn't care what numbers are used , a 3/8-18 nut at 14,000 mph or 42,000 kph is still going to shatter the heat shield panel , poke a hole in the wing , or suck the ceramic plate armor and kevlar backer clear through Yuri and probably turn his lung into a projectile of its own . Whether it becomes a space mummy, freezes solid , or crumbles to dust is up for debate .

 

[Rick]

I promise I will never, have never fired a single shot outside of the earth's gravity or atmosphere. Not a one.