Over weight for caliber
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KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
Weight is a force. Mass is the amount of material in an object. Because of the inertial properties of mass it requires force to cause it to accelerate. It is this acceleration we measure as a force called weight. Because the traditional English system uses weight as a base unit and the metric system uses mass as a base unit when converting one to the other you have to take into account that F (force) = mass (m) x acceleration (a), thus the equation F = ma.
todd
Well-Known Member
i think there is difference the law between black and smokeless powder. any smokeless cartridge after 1898 & above .510" is considered anti-material. black powder has no rules or at least some kind of rules/laws.
i have a 500 Linebaugh (.510") in a TC Encore with a 23" MGM barrel. i use 450gr LFNGC with HS-6 that goes 1235fps. i can bump that up using Win296, but why bother. it is around the speed of 50-70 Government and i only going to kill deer with it (i wish).
Saskatchewan changed regs recently
We used to be restricted to “above 23 cal”
Someone in the NWT is making an amazing round .234x55 based on the swede
It used to be illegal to hunt big game with it, but I could make a 25ACP rifle and go for trophy moose
Now with the changes I think most faster rounds are allowed
But some are not allowed specifically:
Such as 357mag, 45 Colt, and I think 44mag
Makes zero sense
Oh, and I am a fan of heavy for calibre bullets
And larger calibre cartridges for hunting big game, just because!
We used to be restricted to “above 23 cal”
Someone in the NWT is making an amazing round .234x55 based on the swede
It used to be illegal to hunt big game with it, but I could make a 25ACP rifle and go for trophy moose
Now with the changes I think most faster rounds are allowed
But some are not allowed specifically:
Such as 357mag, 45 Colt, and I think 44mag
Makes zero sense
Oh, and I am a fan of heavy for calibre bullets
And larger calibre cartridges for hunting big game, just because!
L Ross
Well-Known Member
.234" who makes .234" bullets? .243 maybe? But that's already above 23 caliber. More data required please.
Missionary
Well-Known Member
Well before anything fails use a caliber .58 unless a .76 Brown Bess is handy.
Simply rules out the "22s."
The 1.8" max case length in some states was very likely chosen to keep certain cartridges out of the hunting field rather than for any ballistic reason.
We don't have that in Ohio, but we DO state a .357" minimum diameter, which Winchester failed to account for when designing their 350L. In the end, they claimed that the plus-tolerance was .355" + .002" and Ohio let them slide. This is specific to the "straight-wall" cartridges, but trying to write the law without loopholes gets cumbersome. We first had a list of specific handgun cartridges allowed, but over time, a lot of the confusing stuff was winnowed out and things got easier and more sensible.
Many of the weird things regarding these laws are included in the laws as a concession to some stick-in-the-mud, so they could agree with something sensible, but still save face by looking like they didn't just give into it.
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I’m not a engineer, nor physicist, but the bigger(diameter) and heavier the bullet = more potential energy. Put that bullet in motion, and it becomes kinetic energy. So, if you have a .358 diameter bullet that weighs 150 grains moving at 1200 FPS it has X kinetic energy. Use a 200 grain bullet at the same speed X goes up. In simple mans terms the heavier the bullet the harder it hits, as long as all other variables are constant.
I think there is a fine line between too heavy and too light, it also depends on use. The standards were designed for a specific use. Some of that carried over into the commercial world and it became the norm. 30-06 was 150 . 300 WM 180, etc. times are changing and we are seeing heavier bullets being introduced in factory ammo. Bullets are getting better, testing equipment also better. So what was “normal” and “proven” is being up ended as this new technology comes in.
Us as hand loaders in general have the ability to do whatever we want, the sky is the limit. Whatever your end use will be determines the load you build. I tend to go toward the heavier end of the spectrum for bullets for many reasons. Heavier bullets will hold out to longer distances than lighter ones, even with the heavier one moving significantly slower than the lighter one. Barrel life, heavier seems to be more accurate, energy, the list goes on.
I think there is a fine line between too heavy and too light, it also depends on use. The standards were designed for a specific use. Some of that carried over into the commercial world and it became the norm. 30-06 was 150 . 300 WM 180, etc. times are changing and we are seeing heavier bullets being introduced in factory ammo. Bullets are getting better, testing equipment also better. So what was “normal” and “proven” is being up ended as this new technology comes in.
Us as hand loaders in general have the ability to do whatever we want, the sky is the limit. Whatever your end use will be determines the load you build. I tend to go toward the heavier end of the spectrum for bullets for many reasons. Heavier bullets will hold out to longer distances than lighter ones, even with the heavier one moving significantly slower than the lighter one. Barrel life, heavier seems to be more accurate, energy, the list goes on.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
But if you wanted to……
You now have the necessary information
You now have the necessary information
Most of the standard weights were developed during the black powder days. Modern propellants are very different in the performance characteristics. What was once too heavy for optimum performance is now ideal.
I hunt big game with a revolver. To me it is not productive to practice with light bullet loads because I don't shoot them in the field. The only standard weight bullets I use regularly is the 98gr swc in the 32H&R and a 150gr 38sp.
My normal weight bullets are:
170gr 357mag
230gr 41mag
280gr 44mag
310gr 45Colt
415gr 475L
525gr 500L
All give best accuracy and performance on game and at the target.
I hunt big game with a revolver. To me it is not productive to practice with light bullet loads because I don't shoot them in the field. The only standard weight bullets I use regularly is the 98gr swc in the 32H&R and a 150gr 38sp.
My normal weight bullets are:
170gr 357mag
230gr 41mag
280gr 44mag
310gr 45Colt
415gr 475L
525gr 500L
All give best accuracy and performance on game and at the target.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I disagree.
1. Many of the catridges you show as examples were developed well after the black powder era.
2. Although smokeless powder allows for higher velocities, the rules of physics still apply. The only way to make a bullet heavier without increasing its diamater, is to make it longer. Adding weight (and therefore, length) has limits. You're going to pay the price somewhere.
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Missionary
Well-Known Member
Yea,, Have to use more lead. But then I have a very good friend who has a Goodyear truck tire business.
Sure everything has it's limiting factor. Some like speed, and some of us are happy launching heavy slugs that plow through.
That is why we are called individuals.
Sure everything has it's limiting factor. Some like speed, and some of us are happy launching heavy slugs that plow through.
That is why we are called individuals.
The cartridges are based upon old black powder bullet weight standards:
38sp (357)
41 Colt (41mag)
44/40 (44mag)
50/70 (500L)
Also the weights I am shooting are not unreasonably over for the respective cartridges to hinder performance with lower velocity nor are my loads relying on higher than standard pressures to achieve good velocity. Instead I focus on accuracy and penetration. As I said, I hunt with these.
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I am fully aware of the history of those cartridges and I am not in need of education on the topic.
And I would submit that the 44 Mag was developed from the 44 special, which in turn, was a growth of the 44 Russian, not the 44/40.
In any event, we may have to respectfully disagree.
And I would submit that the 44 Mag was developed from the 44 special, which in turn, was a growth of the 44 Russian, not the 44/40.
In any event, we may have to respectfully disagree.
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My point was where the standard weights came from, not the parent brass. The 500 Linebaugh isn't from 50-70 brass either.
The simple fact is that if the heavier bullets didn't work as well as or even better than the so-called standard weights, then they wouldn't be as popular as they are.
However, there is a rollover point where the bullet weight is too heavy for adequate performance. John Linebaugh, John Taffin, Veral Smith, JD Jones, and other experts in the field have burned alot of powder finding the balance points and have published their experiences.