PID controller advice?

Eagle223usa

Active Member
Can anyone here please give me advice on how to create a PID temp control for my Lee Pro 4/20? I really don't have a clue. I've been reading threads on it but none come out and tell me what I need and how to assemble one. I may be a bit dense... Thanks.
 

Mike W1

Active Member
Can anyone here please give me advice on how to create a PID temp control for my Lee Pro 4/20? I rey don't have a clue. I've been reading threads on it but none come out and tell me what I need and how to assemble one. I may be a bit dense... Thanks.
I can and have walked a few guys thru it. Was going to PM you but couldn't find that on here. regular email has worked the best for me in the past anyway. mwil@butler-bremer.com
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Put your cursor over the persons name then a box pops up. On the bottom it says "start conversation" that is the PM feature
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Or you could buy one from Hatch on the other Forum, which shall remain nameless. I bought one of each he offers, a single and then a double. They work great no hassle.
Here’s his link:
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I'll help wherever I can with specific problems or questions, but there's a lot of research one should do to put oneself in the position to have even a vague idea what questions TO ask. Lots of resources for that as well. It takes me two years to teach people what they'd need to know to absorb what is required for this project in a few posts, or even a long thread.
 

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
I built a dual PID controller from scratch a few years ago and did a writeup. Somebody here posted a link to it, I can't find it but it's out there. Might give the OP a little more background befor getting started. Anybody got the link?
 

KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
Aha! Found the link:


Unless you have a machine or fab shop just buy a box designed for electronic projects, lots of online sellers for folks that don't have a commercial electrical/electronic supply store nearby.
 

Mike W1

Active Member
Put your cursor over the persons name then a box pops up. On the bottom it says "start conversation" that is the PM feature
Thanks. I suppose they followed MS's examples with new systems. Have a different name for the same task and/or put it in a different location.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Thanks. I suppose they followed MS's examples with new systems. Have a different name for the same task and/or put it in a different location.
Well, get used to that when you start dinking with PID controllers, as one of the most common kinks is getting through labyrinthine menu systems and figuring out what each one calls the same thing. I came to the conclusion at some point that there are a lot of very good controllers out there and what differentiates them is those two features. Translations done in the controller's country of birth tend to compound that a trifle.

One can get a master's degree or even a PhD by researching (reading up on) an old concept and coining all new catch-phrases and buzz-words for it, and then writing a paper on it like he or she discovered something NEW. Most will have read way past the point of boredom and give up before figuring out that it's nothing new.

EDIT: nothing against people with PhDs. I have several intelligent friends with such a badge and they are very good people. I know many more who are riding that piece of paper - that credential, without credibility.
 
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CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Aha! Found the link:


Unless you have a machine or fab shop just buy a box designed for electronic projects, lots of online sellers for folks that don't have a commercial electrical/electronic supply store nearby.
We used 30 cal plastic ammo can
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
I used to have to program the controllers when I replaced them on a couple of machines we used at the factory. We used some very big ones that heated sets of rotating crimpers. They sealed the ends of the packages. What it was is the little Christmas Tree car fresheners. You had to seal both the top and bottom of each package. Each die sealed and cut the top of one package and the bottom of the next package. You had 2 sets of dies that the package rotated between each die set. As they spun they cut and sealed each package.

We had to be very consistent on the temps so they would seal. Too hot they don't seal. Too cool they don't seal and will not cut the package. Then if you get into a new batch of cellophane the temps usually had to be changed again.

Then we had all kinds of bag sealers in the pack lines. They were the biggest pain in the rear. They took a good 20 minutes reprogramming. You literally had to program every option in the menu. Then hopefully it worked as sometimes you had to tweak the settings a little. The auto learns did not work for these.
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
I looked into building my own PID, managed to get myself totally confused, but, I am not good at building stuff like this, I believe it’s because it simply doesn’t interest me. I don’t have a problem with other things especially carpentry.
But looking into building my own, naw I wrote the check, that was easier.
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
I built my own. I used instructions I found on the "other site". I probably saved a little money but not if my time was worth even $5/hr. By the time you gather the parts, go back and gather more parts (the right ones this time), go back and gather more "right ones" after you screwed up the first set......typical project. It would have been easier and maybe even cost effective to write a check and buy one completed. I'm glad I did it, love how well it works, I learned something, and most of all it kept me out of trouble fiddling with yet another project.
 

JonB

Halcyon member
Can anyone here please give me advice on how to create a PID temp control for my Lee Pro 4/20? I really don't have a clue. I've been reading threads on it but none come out and tell me what I need and how to assemble one. I may be a bit dense... Thanks.
Advice.
If you aren't acquainted with basic electronics, Stop. Just buy a prebuilt controller that is plug and play.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
The last THREE (@JonB slipped one in before I finished my "tome") posts make tons of sense for anyone who isn't in it just for the "fun" of it and has the desire to learn more about the subject of electrical controls. I don't want to discourage anyone who wants to learn, but there is a point where diminishing returns takes over and the first attempt will likely eventually be upgraded or replaced at some point and there goes the "economy" we rationalize when doing things ourselves. The economy of it is an illusory point, and I think when we tally what we have invested over the years to "save money by casting and reloading," we can admit it's about much more than that.

Since I've done electrical controls for a living fro over thirty years, a PID controller is a naturally basic project, and I had parts. Not much of an equipment investment for me, but years of dinking with this stuff for a loving meant I didn't have to look anything up. let alone learn about it first. We all envy the fellas with lathes and how they can turn out a bullet nose-punch or sizing die, but don't always factor in the tens of thousands of dollars'-worth of equipment an the years to learn that trade. The welders who can magically make two pieces into one or fill in pits on an action can make a little jealous as well, but the equipment, the experience - way more than a short bit of welding wire and five minutes.

If we do new things out of curiosity, stubbornness, or anything BUT economy, there is an intangible payout in the end, but if we bother to quantify it materially, we've likely been in the red since before the material was acquired. It's a log-term investment, which only ever really pays in practical terms over a long period of time. For a one-shot deal, it makes more sense to trade skills - do what we do for a living to pay someone else to do something THEY do for a living.

Practicality and pragmatism rarely deters the determined, independent-minded person, which most here happen to be. I've done a lot of things just to be able to say that I did it. I have a $90 Harbor Freight wire welder, but I ain't no welder. I've spent as much on wire (probably more on grinding wheels) as I did on t he welder, to make a set of hinges for a blanket chest, put a new shock mount on a Jeep, reattach an exhaust hanger and fix a toilet seat (long story - not going into it), so for probably $200, I didn't save any money and I still sure ain't no welder. It's the luxury of stubbornness, more than anything. Now, if I really need something important welded, I'd pay a real welder to do it.
 
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JonB

Halcyon member
Jeff, that's a lot of words, LOL :oops:

I'd like to change my answer to the OP.

Advice:
1. You've read the threads, so you know what basic parts to buy, go ahead and buy the parts you think you need.
2. Attempt to read the spec sheets that might come with the parts and/or are printed on the side of the components.
3. Doing those two things will likely give you an idea of the questions you need answered.
 

seagiant1

Active Member
Hi,
I built one a few months back and enjoyed it.

Be advised, each PID brand is a little different.

Try to find a schematic that uses your PID!

 
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KeithB

Resident Half Fast Machinist
I bought two identical PIDs to make mine. One of them had the sticker/label with all the terminal markings on it 180* out of sync. I'm not a real electronics guy but I knew enough to figure out what was going on. If I'd only had one unit or if I knew even less about electronics (is that possible?) it could have turned into a frustrating situation.

When everything is marked right and working properly it isn't a difficult project but it is harder than building a birdhouse.
 
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Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
The hardest part is being able to read the schematics. And hopefully they are drawn right like in KeithB's case. And hopefully they are not all in German as a lot of the equipment I worked on in several factories were. Thats fun.