Powder coating question

[freebullet]

I use a 6x4x2 inch plastic container & simply shake'em up 50-60 at a time. That's for low velocity handguns only though.

 

[SierraHunter]

Up until yesterday the only thing I had tried them in was the 300 blackout with 200 grain subsonic. I tried a few in my 6x45 yesterday and had decent results up until I had a issue with my loads.

I'm gonna have to get a small toaster oven and a thermometer. While inspecting the 6x45 I am seeing a hint of red in the bore, and I imagine it is because I am not getting a accurate temperature when baking.

 

[waco]

I really need to get a hold of Smoke and get some better powder. HF red is all I have tried....

 

[JD Kinman]

I use a 6x4x2 inch plastic container & simply shake'em up 50-60 at a time. That's for low velocity handguns only though.

I started using the Hi-Tek coating a couple of years ago when our friends from Down Under introduced us to it. I tumble the projectiles, pour them on quarter-inch rabbit fencing screen trays I made, let them dry for about ten minutes, then bake in a small convection oven for twenty minutes at 400F. I do a second light coating, let dry, bake for 15 minutes, then finish with a third light coating, let dry and then bake for 15 minutes and upon leaving the oven, immediately dump the coated bullets into a tray of water.

For anything with a gas-check shank, I install the gas checks first before tumbling the first coat on. I did accuracy tests with and without gas checks for a variety of .30 caliber bullets and found that I still got better consistent accuracy with the gas checks than without.

All sizing is done through the Lee push-through sizers. Have never lost any coating doing it this way. I can do several hundred at a time this way in one session (oven has multiple tray racks), let the bullets dry overnight and then size them the next day.

 

[Ian]

Lordy. If PC was that much trouble I'd go back to the stone age.

 

[Gary]

If you haven't read JD's books, you're missing out on some good reading.

 

[JD Kinman]

Lordy. If PC was that much trouble I'd go back to the stone age.

Actually, it's not much different than the way I used to tumble-lube. I always preferred two light coats, and I always without fail sized every single bullet. With the Hi-Tek, I'm just adding a third light coat, quenching and sizing.

 

[Ian]

It's great to have all these options. With powder coated bullets I handle each one with nodlenese pliers and examine the coating, touch up if necessary, tap off excess powder, and place on non-stick foil. It's tedious, so once is enough. Some people are doing the shakenbake thing and just sifting out the bbs and excess powder and baking the bullets in a big clump, which is very expedient, but creates too many defects for my OCD to find tolerable. Seems the liquid Hi-Tek stuff is easier to use do to the bulk handling of the bullets, but still my preference is one coat, one bake, and done. Like you, I size every single bullet, sometimes before coating.

 

[Gary]

To address sizing and ACCURACY issues, a member over on CB's has a system he uses that shows real promise, clear out to 350 yards. Interesting read and great information.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?315642-Accurate-PC-350-Yds-part-1
I use Smoke's powders and they are light years ahead of Harbor Freight powders which I started with.

 

[Ian]

Good thread, Gary, looks like asbbsb has been well-proven there. 200 grains at 2250 fps in a .308 is about the ceiling of the cartridge. Solid sub MOA groups at 350 yards from several different 10-twist barrels is also highly impressive. This is the sort of thing that in my experience has required paper jackets to achieve.

 

[fiver]

I think Bama could do better.
I have tried to discuss some improvements with him based on the success I have had with naked boolits.
he isn't open to any of that, I guess he figures the copper alloy and Powder jacket will take him where he wants to go.

 

[Ian]

It's all the same principle, the PC just lets you do more (or get away with doing more things wrong) in the alignment and lube department and still have decent results. If you can't make a nekkid and greased-up bullet shoot, PC won't make you much better.

His recovered bullets are telling him what you told him loud and clear, if he can put it all together.

 

[Gary]

what impresses me more than anything is he's certainly no slouch behind that trigger. The man can shoot!!

 

[fiver]

yeah he can shoot.
but if he can put together a better package he can do better.
and IMO faster with more accuracy.

the only thing holding me back from powder coating is the application.
I have thought about static application, tumbling with heat, and a few other methods.
but that uneven coating is a hurdle I can't cross.


I had a nice talk with a retired Hornady tool and die maker.
he explained how they made the interelokt jackets and I could see exactly how to do it at home.
unfortunately there is also the chance of cutting/punching the jacket unevenly.
and I got no way to measure whether I cut them off center or not other than shooting them.

 

[Gary]

If you're into shooting with a handgun, PC, IMO, is the only way to go. It's easy, fast and the results are outstanding, especially when quality powders (powder coating paint) are used. Virtually totally eliminating barrel Leading providing the alloy is right.
That said, the ONLY PC I run in my rifles are for subsonic 300 BO and my 44-40. My 6.5 Creedmoor RPR gets a diet of Hornady ELD-M's.

 

[freebullet]

I would say while Bama's test results are impressive it is a fail if leaving that nasty very difficult to remove crud in the bore. I have zero interest in cleaning out burnt pc from my bore.

So fiver & Ian, yall saying he needs a design with a larger nose or bore ride section?

 

[fiver]

kind of.
if his boolit design started out like it was ending up it wouldn't have the chance of doing so unevenly.
it isn't all about diameter.
except for the areas where it is about the diameter.
pre slumping and strengthening the area in front of the drive band and changing the front drive band's angle on the front edge itself will stop the flow of lead cause it already has.
now cover that up with a jacket and all you need to do is get it in the barrel and accelerate it to speed.
a long nose section is highly unsupported [even if it is engraved by the rifling] so shortening that back to a manageable length and strengthening it keeps everything rotating around the centerline of the bullet.
this allows the jacket to do it's job of gripping the rifling.

 

[Ian]

Yep, that's pretty much it in a nutshell.

I think barrel finish and rifling style may play a part, too. Super-slick barrels are probably going to increase the microscopic contact surface area and really generate some drag and heat with the PC at high speed. I think with rifles we need to treat the PC jacket as a jacket and still give it some lube.

Has anyone thought about loading the PC up with moly power or hBN?

 

[fiver]

if I were to do it I would be the dummy still filling the lube groove with lube.

 

[freebullet]

I kinda read through most all that stuff as it was developing from the start and tested quite a bit with the hf but, I ain't selling the star. Lubed lead has a special draw.