Powder coating question

[Ian]

I lubed a few in one of my old Lyman 45s the other night and it felt good to squeeze some waxy stuff into a big square bullet groove.

I'm going to get around to lubing some of the powder-coated Lee 200s for my .35 Remington eventually, gotta do some gunsmithing first though (fix the damn forearm and put some kind of traction on the butt plate, shooting it from bags is like holding a wet fish).

And one day, maybe sooner than later, I'm going to try both moly and hBN mixed in with PC and see what happens. Chronograph, penlight to eyeball the bore, and target paper is all I have to measure results but that should be enough.

 

[Ian]

if I were to do it I would be the dummy still filling the lube groove with lube.

Nothing dumb about that, in fact it might be the ultimate solution for HV cast ammo in reg'lar ol' storebought rifles.

 

[fiver]

I think it would help.

 

[Pistolero]

Kinda blows my mind that some think "PC is the only way if you have a handgun".

I have many tens of thousands of rounds of naked, soft lead bullets at full, max magnum
velocities through .44 Mag and .357 Mag with not the slightest trace of leading. 8BHN
.357 Mag at "book" 1580 fps, probably more like 1400 in a real revolver 6" bbl, 1.2-1.5"
at 25 yds, zero leading. Many more examples. PC is not needed for handguns, let alone
the "only way". Also lots of lower pressure and vel load with no leading. I haven't cleaned
significant lead out of a barrel in 20 years.

Bill

 

[Gary]

OK, I misspoke, I should have said it's the "only way" FOR ME!! What I'd like to know from you though; are you speaking from a position of knowledge? By that I mean have YOU ever PC'd any of your cast bullets? My money is on NO ! It appears to me you are fixated on one method only and have no desire to PC any of your cast. I once owned a Lyman 4500 AND a Star Luber, sold them both and now exclusively use PC for all my cast along with BLL AND recently PC and BLL together when I want to light em up a little more. Give PC a try, it's not going away, and as with ALL reloading techniques, accuracy involves more than plopping a bullet over your favorite powder and calling it good to go.

 

[Rick]

It seems that what I should learn from your post Gary is that if you want "accurate" revolver loads you must PC the bullets. Plus if you want to push them harder you PC and then tumble lube? Is this correct?

 

[Gary]

Wrong Rick! What I clearly said is summed up in the first sentence of my previous post. What I am saying is that PC offers as many advantages as traditional lube not to mention NO mess and LESS handling of the raw ingredient; LEAD! That said, IMO you CAN'T beat the accuracy of PC'd pistol bullets. They ARE as accurate as traditional lubed Lead bullets. To date I haven't experienced ANY Leading or burnt PC in my revolvers or Semi Autos. Also ,I just recently started using Bens BLL over my PC'd Lead and haven't really tested them out yet. BTW, have you tried PC in your own cast bullets? If you haven't, I'd urge you to give it a go.

 

[Ian]

Gary, can your PC'd bullets make at least 2 MOA groups at 200 yards? Until this topic starts being discussed in that sort of light, I will remain highly skeptical that PC holds any sort of inherent or practical accuracy advantage over traditionally lubed bullets.

 

[Gary]

OK, I get it. Some of you don't want to try PC bullets. That's fine. I prefer PC'd to traditional lubed Lead for the reasons I've stated. Ian, I ONLY PC pistol bullets, with the exception of 247 grain 30 caliber which I shoot in my 300 BlackOut AND at subsonic speeds. So, I don't shoot 2 MOA @ 200 yds with my Pistols, I doubt you do either. To further explain myself and my preferences: I love to use PC'd bullets in my PISTOLS, and I only shoot PC'd bullets in my 300 Blackout. I've NOT experienced any Leading or burnt PC in ANY of the firearms I've used with PC'd cast. I posted a link to some work done by a member on CB that is shooting EXTREMELY well at 350 yds with PC'd cast, you might want to review his work.
Hope I made myself clear, I don't always express myself in terms others understand, my bad.

 

[Rick]

Give PC a try, it's not going away, and as with ALL reloading techniques, accuracy involves more than plopping a bullet over your favorite powder and calling it good to go.

No reason it should go away. I do agree with your first sentence of that post.

OK, I misspoke, I should have said it's the "only way" FOR ME!!

There is no magic wand with PC bullets. I would be most happy to have a revolver match with you, you use your magical PC and I'll use the conventional lube of my choice. Let's say the best average of 5 five shot groups at 200 meters wins.

Your post also implies that if anyone isn't using PC bullets they are simply "plopping" a bullet on top of their favorite powder and calling it good to go. That is so wrong on just about every count. I should also warn about questioning the experience of Bill. Bill has decades of experience handloading and his round count has to be in the many ten's of thousands not to mention decades of serious match competition.

I am delighted that you are so pleased with powder coating but I can assure you it is hardly the only way. You absolutely should PC all of your rounds but that has no bearing on anyone else's accuracy standards if they don't agree with you. Nothing in the world wrong with PC bullets but many people new to casting read these threads and they should not be led to believe that if they want there cast loads to work they simply must PC.
.

 

[Gary]

I don't know exactly how to respond Rick. You are implying that I am anti traditional lube and that's not the case. It's that I PREFER PC just like you prefer traditional lube, that's fine with me. BTW, I've never shot a pistol @ 200 yds. You're obviously a much better pistol shooter than am I. Can't we agree to disagree without rancor? BTW, be honest, have you tried PC'n any of your cast? I have experience with both traditional lube and PC, I simply prefer PC. Forgot to mention, love BLL.
Also, I refer you back to this statement "OK, I misspoke, I should have said it's the "only way" FOR ME."
Sorry for upsetting you or Bill or Ian, I truly apologize.

 

[Rick]

Gary, no rancor intended and I doubt anyone is upset. I am simply pointing out that PC is not the only way and not for everyone because, well because it isn't. Since you are so obviously happy with PC it is no doubt the best method for you. Feel free to post your results with PC, no doubt many will be interested but that has no bearing on it being for everyone. For one thing while you are PC'ing your bullets I will have checked, sized, lubed & loaded mine and be at the range.

 

[RBHarter]

I haven't pc'd anything . I have shot a few that I was given .
In my 45 ACP revolver I saw no practical advantage of the coated vs lubed .
If I didn't have the money in carefully selected moulds , load development , alloy selection , purpose shaped loads , piggy back cross over loads for pistols and rifles , and always had time to wait for the bullets to reach full maturity after a reset heat treat and I could test from each lot to be sure that the mature bullet would do what I needed it to do . Then I along with many other "Codgers" would probably be all over it .

Thing is lots of us don't only load for a couple of pistol calibers for training ammo . I treat every every cartridge as if it has to feed the whole family from cottontail to wild cattle and horses . No I wouldn't use the 380 on a bear and there's no much left if you miss the rabbits head just a little bit with a 2500 fps 222 or a 2400 fps 460 in a rifle either . But the goal and reason is always there .
If I were looking for an all purpose solution and just starting I'd have gone PC or HT most likely . I've gone way past the P of NR . I'm willing to try it I'm just not willing to add another $100 of single purpose gear to the bench .

 

[Ian]

Gary, you simply cannot say this.....:

That said, IMO you CAN'T beat the accuracy of PC'd pistol bullets. They ARE as accurate as traditional lubed Lead bullets.

.....when THIS is the case:

BTW, I've never shot a pistol @ 200 yds.

Not in present company, anyway. You haven't been paying much attention to what Bill or Rick or I have done with pistols or coatings if you assume the things you seem to be assuming. I'm not angry with you, neither is Rick, but you jumped in here making some pretty wild statements and making some pretty un-informed assumptions about us which we're naturally inclined to sort out for you. FYI Bill has experience with coatings and I've done just enough extremely long-range handgunning over the years to know a little about what works and what doesn't. Rick won't toot his own horn, but I can assure you he knows about revolver accuracy at long range, maybe he will post a picture of his trophy case.

I have a little experience with powder coating and after 3-4K rounds downrange in a handful of different calibers think it is very handy and useful for a lot of things, but to date I haven't seen any reason to unbolt a single one of my four lubrisizers from the bench or throw away the boxes of lube that were so painstakingly developed over the past many years.

 

[Tony]

I am NOT an authority on PC materials or application methods. However, I am unaware of any powder coat product that I am willing to chance breathing. I also know of no method of handling these materials without some of it possibly dispersing into the air I'm breathing. Everyone should, in my opinion, at least consider the potential risk to one's health/wellness. At that point please feel free to pay your money and take your chances.....or not.

 

[fiver]

oh I want to try powder coating.
I'm just waiting until they get it right.

 

[Gary]

Good, glad that's all sorted out. BTW Mr Harter, it took me roughly $10 to get into PC'n bullets. Rick, doubt you could beat me to the range if you are using traditional lube and me with PC. Takes me about 30 - 35 min to have 50 rounds ready to go from the time I start PC'n to getting on the range. That's loading them on my Dillon 650 with a Mr Bulletfeeder. Plus my "range" is set up on my 11 acres behind my house.

 

[Ian]

Working on it, Fiver. I waited until someone invented a method of applying it which was better than spraying, and once that happened it was off to the races. I know one way to NOT achieve accuracy in your handgun is to use a flat-based bullet and bake shake-coated bullets sitting flat on their bases on foil. Bevel base or gas check designs without the check shoot MUCH better due to even base edges. Standing PB bullets on their noses might work better.

 

[Rick]

Rick, doubt you could beat me to the range if you are using traditional lube and me with PC. Takes me about 30 - 35 min to have 50 rounds ready to go from the time I start PC'n to getting on the range.

Guess I misunderstood PC'ing. How long do they spend in an oven?
.

 

[Gary]

Mine cook for 15 minutes @ 400 degrees. AND, Ian is correct.

BTW, I have been diagnosed with expressive dysphasia. That's my excuse and I'm sticking with it.