Sad news for Nebraska

[KHornet]

They just announced that a couple from Ne. lost a 2 yr old boy to a gator on Disney property in Fla yesterday. News said the little one was wading in about 6" of water then the gator hit. One rpt said a 6' gator, and another a 12' gator, but those are initial report, and they are still searching for the child.

 

[Rick]

Yeah, pretty sad. The news said that both the mother and the father went in the water after the gator to no effect.

 

[Todd M]

Wow. I can't imagine losing my child like that. Don't want to think about it!

 

[smokeywolf]

Read that yesterday. Ironically, just saw a youtube video a couple of days ago that showed a gator climb a 4 or 5ft. tall chain-link fence. Seems like the Disney engineers and biologists should have been aware of this possibility.

 

[Pistolero]

Horrific, and the parents will never be able to forgive themselves, but who lets their 2
year old play in a lake with gators and at night? Pretty much all lakes in Fla have some
gators, and nowdays most of the smaller ones have multiple, large gators.

I lived in Fla as a young man, and have relatives who live on lakes there now, visit
regularly. Nobody in their right mind would get in the water at night in any of those
lakes. Heck, going in some of those lakes in the daytime isn't too smart, although this
is mostly the swampy, grass filled ones. The clear, sand bottomed ones are usually
OK in daytime.

I guess Nebraskans never learned much about gators, but there were "No Swimming" signs,
according to the articles I saw. What were the parents thinking?

BIll

 

[RBHarter]

They weren't. It's Disney world. Death and mayhem don't happen in Mickey's playhouse .
Disney parks have among the very best safety records of all parks . Disneyland has had only 3 deaths since 1959 and the 2 heart attacks were ruled age/preexisting health condition related . I looked it up because roller coasters just weird me out for whatever reason.
It seems like Disney would go to great lengths to make the park very unpleasant to the critters or keep as many out via relocation services as possible.

The parents have probably already been contacted by representatives and been paid for the immediate needs ,park refunds ,travel vouchers and park passes for life . Next will come the trauma/drama settlement and in all likelihood a court battle .

I can't vouch for all states ,but in Nevada an insurance settlement is not income and therefor not taxable , a legal settlement is income and is taxable income . So when you're offered a 100 k insurance settlement but an attorney says no we can get you 175-200 and I only want 1/3 you will pay 28% of the whole 200 k after the attorney takes his 66k leaving about 101 k after 2 yr or more of haggling . In the meantime interest would have made the balance 105-120 and you'd have only paid uncool 1000-maybe 4000 over 2 years and less than that with a good adviser .

 

[Pistolero]

Endangered Species Act has controlled the gators since the 70s or so. Florida stopped hunting
in the early 60s. When I first moved there in '65, a neighbor was a "fish cop" and one of his duties
was catching gator poachers. Back then seeing a 6 ft gator was quite unusual. By the 80s seeing
that size was common, and in the 90s I saw one about 12 ft long sleeping on a small two lane road
late one night..... I was cruising along at about 70 mph, saw SOMETHING in the headlights way
down the road, lifted off the gas, the something started looking like a big black log laying across the
road, as I got closer I could finally ID it as a very large gator. He was sound asleep, enjoying the
residual heat from the blacktop. I slowly pulled around him, barely keeping two wheels on the
pavement. Had one pretty much as long as a 17 ft canoe suddenly submerge as we slid up
along side him as he was sleeping afloat at the edge of a river..... we were looking the other way
for our friends in another canoe, and drifted up parallel to him. When we were about 4 ft away,
the water just erupted, as he "made a hole" leaving. We pulled paddles out and froze, expecting
BAD stuff to happen, but he just left in a hurry. THAT was a hairy few seconds!

It is not legal to shoot a gator in Florida on any public waters which is pretty much any waters.
Only "nuisance gator professionals" can do this and they are entirely inadequate. Gators move and
you CANNOT control where they get to, believe it. Gators do not fear humans, but a full sized adult
isn't normally seen as prey, too big for MOST of them, but dogs, cats and little kids..... not so
much. And a 12 ft or larger gator -- I wouldn't trust them not to go for an adult. I wouldn't
swim where even a 4 ft or larger one was known to be, just because I want to be safe.

This is a preview of what the wolves will be doing in a few years, and will be protected by the
guys in DC. More and more of them will be out there every year, and they will be killing livestock
and pets. Eventually, it will be little kids, sad to predict.

In Florida, people have learned to keep their dogs AWAY from water, especially at night when
the gators hunt. Dogs are tidbits and a gator will eliminate all of them from a lake in a few days
if folks let the dogs run free. This was true in the 80s and later as the gators got bigger.

Sorry for the family, but this has been coming, and we have talked about it in our family
for decades. Thinking that the world is a Disney movie -- even at Disney World, is a very
dysfunctional view. The world remains a dangerous place.

Bill

 

[KHornet]

Very well written Bill and I very much agree with you. All knowing politicians with Bambi syndrome leaning mentalities which over protect predators have (as in this case) caused, and will cause more lives in the future.
Add to that the animals with rabies that bite humans, and the whole thing becomes more than scary!
Paul

 

[9.3X62AL]

What Bill said, multiplied several times over. And it isn't just 4-legged predators that prog/lib social/environmental justice warriors want to give free rein to. The 2-legged vermin have a special place in their hearts, too. Don't get me started......

 

[Rally Hess]

Good post Bill. I've got a couple customers that do nothing but ADC work in Fla, gators being the bulk of their work.
The wolves have already attacked a camper in a campground near Lake Winnie last year and there were two dogs killed by wolves in the city limits of Duluth last winter. Nobody will turn a pack of hounds loose here, after cats or coons, for fear of having them eaten. The state of Wi. is paying restitution already for hounds killed by wolves.
I made the Cable Restraints(a snare that captures them alive)for yet another wolf study this past winter. They have been "studied" for about forty years in this state now. One would wonder what another study could produce.

 

[Pistolero]

I paid a bunch of money to hunt elk about 6 years back with outfitters who hunted just south of Yellowstone, at one point
we were literally 50 ft from the southwest park boundary, hunting legally in the Nat Forest land, mostly not anywhere near
that close, but within that ecosystem. This has historically been superb hunting territory for elk since they are protected in
the park. Spent a week and covered up to 40 miles in a day, dawn to dusk in the saddle, never saw a single one, in the
higher country where there was snow, never saw a single elk track. Lots of wolf tracks, a couple of moose track trails
and a few mulies, which we actually saw. Also a good number of grizzly tracks in the snow.

The wolves have killed off about 2/3 of the Yellowstone elk herd and scattered the small remaining portion of the Teton Nat
Forest herd southwest out into the rolling barley and wheat country where they have longer visual range to avoid the wolves.

I wonder how it is to have your barley crop fed on by a few hundred elk? Also, I wonder what the predation of livestock is
like in that area, haven't been back to talk to folks. The family had guided in that area for 40+ years, the two sons taking
up after their father retired to cooking for us at camp. They gave up after us, no more hunting in that country and figured
that they would have to give up guiding altogether.

I don't like the idea of letting any predators get a good foothold, it is dangerous to man and beast. I have said for 20+ years
when this topic comes up that "eventually we will once again get tired of our livestock, pets and children and womenfolk getting
attacked and killed by these predators and start working to exterminate them again like we did 150 years back". This whole
idea of reintroducing predators is not sensible, not well thought out and ultimately not safe.

That poor family from Nebraska, where gators are not known, will now live the rest of their
lives with this horror. In one way, they should have known better, but also, the hazard really
shouldn't be allowed to be that close to the unsuspecting folks. Having lived in central Fla,
the hazard is obvious to me, and my first thought is how dumb it is to let your little kid play
in shallow water at night. But I guess that is not common knowledge, perhaps now it will
be more well known.
That is not right. We shouldn't be so blasé about these meat eaters.

Bill

 

[9.3X62AL]

Full agreement with all that Bill posted. I am beginning to believe that prog-libs and Bambi Huggers have a not-so-latent need to victimize American society, given their indulgences extended to wolves--alligators--and ISIS psychopaths. Utterly anthropoclastic, and SICK. I could extend and project this analogy for great lengths, but I am already into the "political" realm, so it is time to SHUT UP.

 

[KHornet]

Well said Bill!

I was stationed about 22 Mi outside of Fairbanks, Alaska for a couple of years. One of the things
lI distinctly remember in the Fairbanks paper was a picture in the paper of what was left of a dog
(Just bones with all the meat eaten off and the collar attached to the chain to the dog house).
This was right in the city of Fairbanks. Wolves are BIG animals, and I believe that people tend
to think of them more the size of German Sheps. Not so! Have seen a couple of them that would
have gone well over 100 lbs, probably in excess of 125 or better. They are big, lean and mean\
animals. A pack of them can take down a boo or moose without much of a problem. Yotes are
much smaller animals, and are table foodfor wolves. Much as house cats are table fare for yotes.

I believe that most intelligent people have a fear of bear, as well they should, but tend to think of
wolves and big cats differently. Sort of like they are like domestic dogs and cats. The movies and
TV have a lot to do with that also. Urban sprall has incroched on wildlife habitat in the past 50 or
so years, and begs for some of the problems with preditor wild life.

As to gators, they buried the little boy yesterday in Elkhorn, yesterday! You are right about some
people from places north of Fla not realizing the danger and issues related to gators. I would llike
to hope that Disney will eliminate the problem, but fear that a similar incident will occur in the
future.

Paul

 

[358156 hp]

I once saw a pic of a lady bowhunter who realized she was being stalked by a really large wolf. She dropped it with a 44 mag S&W Mountain Gun at pretty close range. The wolf was twice her size! I've never seen such a big wolf before, the ones in the midwest don't seem to even make 100 lbs. No wonder the people who work and play in the outdoors hate them.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2011/oct/11/bowhunter-shoots-large-wolf-dead/

 

[Pistolero]

That gets a pucker factor of about 11. Good shooting.

Good thing she wasn't just armed with the bow. That is one big wolf. I backpack in
Bridger Wilderness (about 50-70 miles southeast of Yellowstone) and have been carrying a .44
for decades for grizz, wolves and other predators. Finally got a S&W 329 which is
really unpleasant to shoot, but a whole lot nicer to carry than the Anaconda 6" that I started
with when you already have about 50 lbs of gear on your back.

When I first went in there in '73 there was no need to hang your food, black bears were
nearly gone and stayed away from humans. By the 80s, the word was to hang your food
due to black bears. By the 90s, grizz were moving down occasionally from Yellowstone, and
there was talk about wolves. By 2000, wolves were moving through the area periodically, and
taking livestock, as were grizz. Lots of cattle and sheep in that country. Not shooting
predators is just dumb in the long run.

There are large carnivores out there, and here we are, made out of meat. Ya'll be careful now.

Bill

 

[freebullet]

I'm deeply saddened for this little boy. I'm in Nebraska less than 20 miles from those folks & I've known better since being a kid myself.

Predators come in all shapes & sizes. They attack when you least expect it. Some parents refuse to acknowledge this life fact. What's worse is when they fail to teach their children about the common threats.

This sad incident was avoidable on many levels. Live the fairytale....

 

[KHornet]

Good to see ya back on line Freebullet!
Paul

 

[Pistolero]

Yep. "Known better" is the key. Folks seem to think that the three monkey's approach is
an actual, workable plan. It is convenient, but when if fails, it fails big.

And yes, it is very sad. I can't imagine how hard it is for the parents.

Bill

 

[freebullet]

Thanks Paul, I'm glad to be back. Lack of time & computer/phone issues have left me with little time for fun. I've been fishing & shooting less than a handful of times since spring.
Add to that our reloading area being shifted(Piled to one side of the room in an unusable fashion) to accommodate the second stage of a remodel and I feel like I'm starting over with no time to fix it all.

Glad to see you getting out there, and sharing the results. Stay well.

 

[KHornet]

Yah Bruce, Things pile up and you get snowed under. Happens even when you are retired!
Paul