Sad news for Nebraska

[Pistolero]

In a related news item.....

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-06-30-14-47-31

I have done a lot of hiking in Yellowstone and much more in Wind River range south of there. Grizz numbers
are steadily increasing. No doubt some maulings are due to brain dead tourists, but others seem to be just
being there when the bear decides he/she doesn't like it.

Always in Yellowstone, even before it was officially OK, I carried a .44 Mag. Just not willing to stand there
and say "Oh, gosh, I sure am glad I obeyed their rule against guns in parks......." as a grizz chewed on me
or my wife. We have had bear spray for a while, too, and now that carrying is legal, I more openly carry on
any trail in Yellowstone, even the day hike ones. Strong side, high holster tends to blend in to the
dark blue daypack, but have never had anyone say a word. They seem oblivious. Never once even a
funny look. Nobody ever mentioned the wife's prominent chest holster for the big bear spray, I guess
that is pretty obvious what it is and why we have it.

Bill

 

[KHornet]

Big Bears are afraid of nothing!

My partner and I did a Mexican stand off with a grizz in the Brooks Range
in Alaska. Came over a small ridge and there he was digging marmots or something. He was about 80 yds
off. He stood up on hind legs for a couple of min, winded us, and went back to digging. We were sheep
hunting and did not have a bear tags. He was between us and the mountain we wanted to climb, so my partner
hunkered down between some rocks, and I stood in the open. I had a 7Rem, Bill had a 7x57. I had 5ea 175 gr
max loads carried strictly in case we had a situation where max energy was needed. The next time he stood
up, he was about 65-70 yds from me, but moving in our direction slowly. I had picked out a spot where it was
shoot or get mauled, about 20 yds out from me, and about 30 yds from Bill. When he dropped down this time
he did sort of a false charge to about 40 yds, stopped, stood up again, dropped down, and went back out to
maybe 50 yds and started digging again. This routine went on for maybe 25-30 min, with one more false
charge, and then I think he got tired of playing with us, and wandered off on the opposite direction. We
watched him until he was out of sight. Probably 1/3 to a half mile, before we were comfortable enough to start to'
and go up the mountain.

Sleeping that night was more than a little uncomfortable knowing he was out there, and we had only a 4 man
Thermos tent between us and the big guy. It worker out all right however, as Bill got his sheep, I missed mine, but
was a great adventure. Was more than a little dicy having sheep meat in camp, but we had it bagged and 20 yds away
from the front of the tent.Got iced in on the lake we were on, and the plane could not land without busting his pontoons.
Pilot dropped a msg telling us that there was open water about 12mi down the valley. We waved that we would
get there the next day. Had to pack all our gear, tent & sheep, and get to the lake that had open water about 12 mi away.
Had 3 shallow river crossings (about 2-3 feet deep), to get to the other lake. We were carrying packs that went
about 75-80 lbs, however we were in our mid 30's and in pretty decent shape.

The following spring Bill and I both got our Kodiaks on the Aleutions (sp), about 10 mi out of Port Hyden. Bill
got his at about 65 yds with a 200 gr Speer over a max load of either 4350 or 4831, in a Mod 70 30-06, one
shot, bang drop. I shot mine at about 25 yds head on, big blond sow, with a 300gr. Hor. Round nose, over a max
load, but don't remember of what with a 375 H&H Browning. Hit her dead center chest, knocked her tail over tea cups, and she got up, ran
at an angle away from us leaving a blood trail on the tundra, like it was painted on. Went about 250 yds
before she bled out, on the edge of a small lake that she fell into. It is tough to get a big wet bear out of the
water that is quite deep, but we managed. Bill's shot took out 3 of the vertabre on his and the bullet traveled down
about 18 +/- inches. My shot went full length of the bear, and I dug the bullet out just in front of the tail bone.
Bears are tough. We were Alaskan residents at the time, and we hunted without guides. Strictly fair chase.

I carried a super Black Hawk with Kieth loads as my side arm. Am very glad I never had a chance or need to use
it. For some reason that I regret to this day, I passed up shooting a black bear. Anyhow, both hunts were great
adventures. We were both successful bear hunters, Bill was a successful sheep hunter, and we made it out by
the grace of God and a little luck. Would I do either hunt the same way and under the same conditions. Haint
no way Jose!

Paul

 

[Pistolero]

Great stories, thanks. "Bill with a 7x57 would describe me, too." I usually hunt
with that in a Ruger 77, although there are plenty of other choices in the safe.

Yes, when hiking, sometimes the pistol comes up in discussion. I usually mention that
"the second to last thing I want to do is take on a grizz with a pistol." They usually ask,
"second to last?" "Well, yeah, it is ahead of using my Swiss Army knife."

No illusions about the ease of stopping a grizz with any pistol, but still better than
the reasonable options. Rifles would be MUCH more comforting, but those great
bears are really imposing creatures, no doubt.

When hiking in McKinley Park in the 80s, we couldn't take the .44 Automag, and I
was naïve enough to follow the rules. We hiked for three days across country,
saw some sheep, saw a couple of grizz at a couple hundred yards. You really
do have an entirely different view of things when you are unarmed and in that
country and see them. No trees to climb (a few fir about 8-10 ft tall max), no place
to run, and no weapon. Bear spray didn't exist. Serious pucker factor. When setting
up camp that evening we found a moose shoulder blade with bits of meat still
adhering. You haven't hiked if you haven't hiked across tussocked tundra, that
is uniquely difficult terrain. Hiking in the gravel stream bed is a dream by
comparison. Wish I had a .22 for ptarmigan, the dumbest wild bird I ever saw, it
would seem. I imagined that they would be good eating.

Later when we were driving in McKinley, we saw a 600 lb grizz at about 100
yds, stopped the car and watched. After a while he did a false charge, HARD
run at max speed, covered 50 yds in about 5 seconds, and we QUICKLY took a
couple steps and got into the car, thinking how puny the glass seemed. Very
frightening on a primeval level.

When riding the bus in McKinley, a female with two cubs was traveling parallel
to the road, about 10 yds away, crossing a 30 deg slope with 6-12" rocks scattered
every few ft, and low willow brush covering 20%. They were just traveling, not max
effort, but moving. The cubs playing grabass and rolling and falling, then running
to catch up with mom. The bus driver stayed with them, and I walked up and
looked at the speedometer. They were easy cruising across rough terrain at
10 mph. You will not ever outrun a bear.

That was the last time I went into great bear country unarmed. Being unarmed
and NOT at the top of the food chain is very uncomfortable, and Yes, a tent is
small consolation at night, too.

Bill

 

[Rick]

Out run a bear? There is a name for people that try to out run a bear. They are called . . . Lunch! But you don't need to be faster than the bear, you only need to be faster than your buddy.

 

[Pistolero]

Once you have seen one run at full speed, it is bone chilling, literally.

Not a prayer. Yeah, all the jokes are true.

Bill

 

[Rick]

I've only ever seen one Grizzly in the wild, Glacier National park. Was driving and saw it on side of a slope lumbering along turning over rocks at about 75 yards, even at that distance it looked huge. It stopped and stood up looking at me and went right back to turning over rocks like I was to boring to bother with. I thanked him for that and drove off.
.
.

 

[Brad]

Out run a bear? There is a name for people that try to out run a bear. They are called . . . Lunch! But you don't need to be faster than the bear, you only need to be faster than your buddy.

Why do you think I hunt with old guys?

 

[Rick]

Why do you think I hunt with old guys?

That pretty obvious. So you can learn something!
.

 

[Brad]

That pretty obvious. So you can learn something!
.

Yes, I could learn how to be eaten by a bear. My dad just doesn't run well anymore. So sad.

Why do you think I took my wife and daughter to Africa with me?

 

[smokeywolf]

Was up close to a Grizzly once. I was about 11 years old and was on vacation with the parents. We were in Yellowstone. When the ranger assigned our campsite, he warned us that a really large Grizzly had been raiding the trash cans and had chased off all the other bears in the area. Sure enough, that night we were sitting in the RV, heard the trash can rattle, looked out and could make out the shape of a really large bear.

 

[Pistolero]

You should have gotten out and popped him in the nose with a towel.......

A Yellowstone ranger once told me a story about just what you said, rangers going through the hardside campground
and warning that a bear had been coming thru, told a guy to put his cooler inside the RV. He said he would as soon
as he finished his meal. About an hour later they responded to a call, and the idiot had left the cooler out, with
bacon in it, and when grizz came up and started eating from his cooler, he stepped out with a dishtowel (no info
as to caliber) and tried to stop the bear by popping it in the face with the towel.

They transported him to the hospital.

There are clearly no limits on human stupidity.

Bill

 

[Paden]

Sad story about the tragic incident in Florida, tho I can't imagine living in a world without apex predators and am glad to see them making a comeback in some parts of the L-48.

 

[smokeywolf]

Bill, it sounds like the rangers or paramedics interrupted the bear's attempt to perform a service to humanity.

 

[9.3X62AL]

No griz encounters to date, and all but one of my sightings of black bears had them "beating feet" away from me/us. Summer 2002 in the nearby mountains, Marie and I were starting to pick berries when we heard the CHUFF CHUFF of a black bear very close at hand. We could smell him, too--but couldn't see him. I had the Redhawk along, and we slowly backed out of the patch toward the truck, me covering Marie's retreat. Since then, we include a rifle along with sidearms on all back-country jaunts. 30/30 WCF minimum, and a repeater. More recently, Marie kicked up a cougar near Eagle Mountain this Spring while rockhounding. The desert has its apex predators, also.

I don't think it is reasonable to utterly eliminate apex predators, but I think their numbers need to be managed downward considerably. If that ends up in a "shoot/shovel/shut up" scenario, oh well.

 

[Paden]

...I think their numbers need to be managed downward considerably. If that ends up in a "shoot/shovel/shut up" scenario, oh well.

If such notion were extended equally to all, I'd vote for it.

 

[KHornet]

It is stated in Alaska that Grizz, for a short distance can out run a horse. I have no doubt that is true!
And as to the shovel, you would want a big one!!!!!!!!

 

[KHornet]

Almost every year there is some idiot with a camera who gets treed or mauled in McKinley.
When we were up there, one of them was using a rabbit call, on a sow with cubs, and got
treed. He was lucky, very very lucky! Believe there was a healthy fine involved in that one.

Paul

 

[Pistolero]

Treed in McKinley!? Not many places in that park where that is possible, meaning trees
big enough to climb. Definitely lucky, and stupid as a box of rocks. Making noises like
a dying rabbit around grizz? Like smokeywolf said - grizz would be raising the average
human population ID noticeably, service to humanity.

Bill

 

[Rick]

Believe there was a healthy fine involved in that one. Paul

Cool, in Alaska the give fines for stupidity. Grand idea, they could make millions.
.

 

[KHornet]

Don't know about now, but when I lived there, it was against the law to fly in and shoot
on the same day. This was to avoid spotting the game from the air and getting to it.
There was also a "wanton waste law". This required that at minimum, on a game animal
you had to harvest all four quarters of the animal, and I believe the back straps. The state
didn't care if you harvested horns and head or not. Fines for these laws was very steep,
including cash, loss of hunting rights, and in some instances loss of fire arms and even
vehicles. I should have retired there!!!!!
Paul