Single Cav. IDEAL 358156

[Ben]

I don't shoot a lot of " full tilt " 357 Magnums.
When I do, this is a good one to use.
The Ray Thompson, 358156 , gas check.
Superbly accurate. Easy to cast with.
Gas check shanks are the correct dia.
The bands are nice and round at .360 as the bullets fall from the mould with ACWW's.

A bit slow if you're accustomed to using a 6 cav. mould.
But, like I said, I don't use a lot of these.
This one was always one of Skeeter's favorite cast bullets.
I'd like to know how old this mould is ? ?
I wonder what the guy that made this mould was being paid per hour.

Ben

 

[RicinYakima]

Early post WW2 and made for the slip-on Lyman gas check. Lyman picked up the design in about 1947/1948 after making some for Ray Thompson.

 

[Ben]

Many thanks for that helpful info. Rick ! !

Ben

 

[Bret4207]

My single most sucessful and favorite 35 cal design! Works good in everything I've tried it in, slow or fast. I've driven it faster than I ever should have in guns that I never should have loaded that hot, (thanks to Skeeter!), but they shot great. One of the very last, if not THE last mould I'd ever part with.

 

[oscarflytyer]

Nice! I have that exact same mold! One of my estate bulk pick ups. Glad to know the info on it and that it is a good 357 mold. What I have notes for it.

 

[358156 hp]

I'm up to 6 or 7 moulds in 358156- 2 two cavity, three single cavity hollowpoint, one four cavity, a 358156/358250 combo mould, and there should be 1 or 2 single cavitys around here somewhere.

I'm not well in the head. Too much Skeeter Skelton articles when I was young.

 

[RicinYakima]

I did a research project for this bullet. It has the highest velocity and the lowest pressure of an "recommended" 357 cast bullet. Any ideas why?

 

[Ben]

By seating the 358156 bullet in a 38 Special case and using the lower crimp ring to crimp into, you will increase the case capacity , exactly how much case capacity increase I don't remember. That's going to drop pressures.

The weight of a 358156 is listed at 155 grs. , maybe less with certain alloys. That is a drop from the standard 158 - 162 gr. weight of many 38/357 cast bullets. That will drop pressure slightly also.

Ben

 

[Bret4207]

I'm up to 6 or 7 moulds in 358156- 2 two cavity, three single cavity hollowpoint, one four cavity, a 358156/358250 combo mould, and there should be 1 or 2 single cavitys around here somewhere.

I'm not well in the head. Too much Skeeter Skelton articles when I was young.

No such thing!!!

 

[Bret4207]

I did a research project for this bullet. It has the highest velocity and the lowest pressure of an "recommended" 357 cast bullet. Any ideas why?

Depends entirely on how you load it. Take a similar GC 160-ish gr bullet with the same components and you should be able to do the same, but whether it will be accurate is another question, and you didn't mention accuracy. Or are you just going off reloading data?

 

[DK'dUranium]

I don't shoot a lot of " full tilt " 357 Magnums.
When I do, this is a good one to use.
The Ray Thompson, 358156 , gas check.
Superbly accurate. Easy to cast with.
Gas check shanks are the correct dia.
The bands are nice and round at .360 as the bullets fall from the mould with ACWW's.

A bit slow if you're accustomed to using a 6 cav. mould.
But, like I said, I don't use a lot of these.
This one was always one of Skeeter's favorite cast bullets.
I'd like to know how old this mould is ? ?
I wonder what the guy that made this mould was being paid per hour.

Ben

I acquired that design in hollow point back in the eighties. I loaned it out to an associate later, and never got it back. Fine bullet.

 

[RicinYakima]

Depends entirely on how you load it. Take a similar GC 160-ish gr bullet with the same components and you should be able to do the same, but whether it will be accurate is another question, and you didn't mention accuracy. Or are you just going off reloading data?

Reloading data. About ten years ago I did an article on the history of 2400 in the 357 cartridge. I loaded pre-WW2, 1960's, Alliant's blend of left over Hercules and new made Alliant. Same case lot, primer lot and lot of 358156's and same lot of gas checks. I used loading data from the vintage of the powder's manufacturing and chronographed a couple of hundred rounds through my Colt Three Fifty Seven. The load books were right, it was the fastest shooting 158 grain bullet I could find. However, not being able to measure pressure, I don't recommend the top loads listed before they changed to the psi system.

 

[Bret4207]

I acquired that design in hollow point back in the eighties. I loaned it out to an associate later, and never got it back. Fine bullet.

"Associate", ie- Used to be a friend till the sob stole my mould!!!!

 

[Bret4207]

Reloading data. About ten years ago I did an article on the history of 2400 in the 357 cartridge. I loaded pre-WW2, 1960's, Alliant's blend of left over Hercules and new made Alliant. Same case lot, primer lot and lot of 358156's and same lot of gas checks. I used loading data from the vintage of the powder's manufacturing and chronographed a couple of hundred rounds through my Colt Three Fifty Seven. The load books were right, it was the fastest shooting 158 grain bullet I could find. However, not being able to measure pressure, I don't recommend the top loads listed before they changed to the psi system.

Well, I'm not clear on whether or not you shot other similar bullets in the test or not, but the 156 was always a good one to push hard. That GC was a marvel at the time it was introduced. Elmer didn't like GC's, but I've never been quite sure if that was because he really thought they weren't needed or if it was because he didn't design the Thompson bullets!!!

IMO it's probably best we don't know what some of the pressures the loads we use actually produce. I was perfectly happy shooting 13.0 Red Dot behind pretty much anything of 7x57 or larger cal with most any bullet that was appropriate for the cartridge. Then I found out it spiked really high, really fast and I switched to 2400. That RD load still shoots better than the 2400 load in some guns, but I'm hesitant to use it!

 

[JustJim]

I was perfectly happy shooting 13.0 Red Dot behind pretty much anything of 7x57 or larger cal with most any bullet that was appropriate for the cartridge. Then I found out it spiked really high, really fast and I switched to 2400.

Wait, what? Where can I get some more info on this?

 

[RicinYakima]

Well, I'm not clear on whether or not you shot other similar bullets in the test or not, but the 156 was always a good one to push hard.

Nope, just the 358156 because there is data from 1950 to present for both 38 Special and 357 Magnum.

 

[358156 hp]

I use the double crimp grooves to full advantage. I always wondered why the other Thompsons didn't have them. I have pushed 358156 hard, at least as hard as my LBT designs. FWIW, the lower crimp groove can be used on 357 mag cases with longer cylinder revolvers like the 686 & GP-100. This allows more room for powder in the case and sets the first driving band into the cylinder throats which helps with cartridge alignment in the chamber. The front band is not full diameter, but that's not a handicap for this design. I'm just starting with the very similar 357446, and I think I finally have all of the major variations of that design. Interestingly enough, we've seen many variations of Keith designs by Ideal/Lyman, but the 358156, and indeed all the Thompson designs appears to have survived their long lives unmolested so far.

 

[RicinYakima]

Interestingly enough, we've seen many variations of Keith designs by Ideal/Lyman, but the 358156, and indeed all the Thompson designs appears to have survived their long lives unmolested so far.

I think that the short drive bands and wide grease and crimp grooves pretty much are not changeable. Also no-one else has ever made the bullet, at least from the major companies.

 

[CZ93X62]

By some distance, the #358156 is my most-used bullet design in 357 Magnum. My version is a Lyman of mid-1980s vintage, and it has alwAys shot well for me. It was a great coincidence that my old shop first authorized the 357 Magnum in 1994, using the W-W Super-X 158 grain JHP loading. That persisted until ~2015, when they finally twigged to the FBI-Blessed Federal #357B load by Federal, which prompts a 125 grain JHP to 1440 FPS or thereabouts. ToMAYto, toMAHto. There are no bad loads in 357 Magnum used as felon repellant. 13.5 grains of Alliant 2400 gives the #358156 the same performance as the Super-X JHPs, about 1235 FPS in my 4" 686. You might want to consult an Alliant reloading data sheet just to be safe, but that load I listed has done no damage to a Model 19 and a Model 66 that lived here for some time.

 

[Bret4207]

Wait, what? Where can I get some more info on this?

Ask Ian or Fiver. My understanding, and I'm none too bright, is that the pressure curve is rather extreme, although very short. The recommendation was to use the 16.0 2400 instead. I feel more comfy with the RD load in stuff with straighter cases, like the 35 Rem or 8x56R than in more bottle necked, smaller bore for the case rounds. But, that's just me and I don't know if that's solid thinking or just my way of justifying the use of a load that works good.