so waht ya doin today?
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462
California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Lately, I’ve been working on developing a 140-grain jacketed accuracy load for the scouterized M96 Swede. Today’s testing consisted of 44.5 and 45.5-grains of IMR 4831, per Hodgdon’s web-site and 2017 Annual Manual (each have the same data). The published minimum load is 43.0-grains at 39,100 CUP, and the published maximum is 46.3-grains at 45,400 CUP. SAAMI's MAP is 45,000 CUP.
There were no problems with today’s first 44.5-grain round. However, after firing the second round the bolt required some extra effort to lift, and on checking the primer I noticed that it was cratered and there was a partial impression of the bolt face. I, then, checked the first round’s primer and it was cratered, too, but there wasn’t any bolt face impression. I packed up the rifle and shot the S&W Models 24 and 624.
Qualifier: I weigh every charge, including plinking loads. Even with the 45.5-grain load the powder was below the case shoulder, and bullets were seated to just above the shoulder.
Back home, I rechecked Hodgdon’s web-site and manual, just to be sure I read them correctly from when I loaded the rounds yesterday. Yep, the loads were well below the 46.3-grain maximum.
I measured the case heads of both fired rounds, full length sized them, and measured them again. The first head expanded .0025" and the second one .0035". WOW! Thanks to Mr. Mauser and Swedish steel the rifle held together.
Speer’s 14th edition manual and their 15th manual’s web-site list IMR 4831 data as 39.0-grains minimum and 41.0-grains maximum. Hornady and Sierra do not list IMR 4831.
Lesson learned: Though I have more than a dozen manuals, and always check at least three of them before starting on any new cartridge and/or bullet experimenting, I didn’t pay enough attention to the huge disparity between Speer’s data and Hodgdon’s. I will forego any further IMR 4831 testing.
There were no problems with today’s first 44.5-grain round. However, after firing the second round the bolt required some extra effort to lift, and on checking the primer I noticed that it was cratered and there was a partial impression of the bolt face. I, then, checked the first round’s primer and it was cratered, too, but there wasn’t any bolt face impression. I packed up the rifle and shot the S&W Models 24 and 624.
Qualifier: I weigh every charge, including plinking loads. Even with the 45.5-grain load the powder was below the case shoulder, and bullets were seated to just above the shoulder.
Back home, I rechecked Hodgdon’s web-site and manual, just to be sure I read them correctly from when I loaded the rounds yesterday. Yep, the loads were well below the 46.3-grain maximum.
I measured the case heads of both fired rounds, full length sized them, and measured them again. The first head expanded .0025" and the second one .0035". WOW! Thanks to Mr. Mauser and Swedish steel the rifle held together.
Speer’s 14th edition manual and their 15th manual’s web-site list IMR 4831 data as 39.0-grains minimum and 41.0-grains maximum. Hornady and Sierra do not list IMR 4831.
Lesson learned: Though I have more than a dozen manuals, and always check at least three of them before starting on any new cartridge and/or bullet experimenting, I didn’t pay enough attention to the huge disparity between Speer’s data and Hodgdon’s. I will forego any further IMR 4831 testing.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
The maximum in their rifles may not be the maximum in your rifle.....as you found, fortunately safely.
Something is different, even when we try to make things the same as we can. Glad all is OK.
How did the lower loads shoot?
Here is a load that I shot in one of my Swedes with no drama at all. But it is H4831SC, which is "similar to"
IMR4831 - and NOT the same, clearly, since this is a 20 gr heavier bullet and 3.5 gr more powder.
Back when I could see.
Bill
Something is different, even when we try to make things the same as we can. Glad all is OK.
How did the lower loads shoot?
Here is a load that I shot in one of my Swedes with no drama at all. But it is H4831SC, which is "similar to"
IMR4831 - and NOT the same, clearly, since this is a 20 gr heavier bullet and 3.5 gr more powder.
Back when I could see.
Bill
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
I think A LOT of printed data for the 6.5 x 55 Swedish was fired using .264" bullets in .266" or larger grooves. My Ruger 77R is L/G .256"/.264", throat is about .2645". 44.0 grains of IMR 4831 is its pet load with jacketed 140 grainers, and it runs them 20 FPS either side of 2675 FPS in a 22" barrel--with extreme accuracy. Twist rate is slower in the Ruger than in most milsurp Swedes--4 turns/meter (1 in 9.75") instead of 5 turns/meter (1 in 7.95"). The Ruger 77 is a strong modern action--brass life is good, and pressure signs are normal. These are put up in R-P brass--W-W is about 2 grains heavier. R-P brass is the full .480" diameter in front of the rim cut--some makes are .473" in this area, like the 308 and 30-06 cases (and their progeny). The 6.5 x 55 and 9.3 x 62 cases have the wider case head spec. Make sure that your measured case head expansion isn't a "false positive" for high pressure, IOW. My first cases for the 9.3 x 62 were formed from R-P 35 Whelen, and they expanded radially above the head on their first firing to conform to the slightly wider chamber found in that caliber. These cases have held up for 17 years, I still use them for cast bullets and they have 10-12 firings with no case loss to date. Gentle pressures and minimal case neck working has paid off handsomely.
Speaking of gentle pressures.......a full case of WC-860 milsurp 50 BMG powder (55.0 grains) imparts 1896-level ballistics to the 140 grain hunting bullets--about 2450 FPS, and GREAT accuracy. This rifle dotes on 140 grain bullets--all of them I have tried.
Differing rifles like different formulae. IMR 4831 has never given me grief or weirdness in 6.5 x 55--it's just a PITA to run through my RCBS powder measure. The throw charges light and trickle them up on a scale. The WC-860 runs like water and measures VERY accurately, as ball powders are wont to do. The O/P may have himself a "Perfect Storm" going on here--tight bore specs and fast twist combining to make things REALLY efficient close to the point of "Too much of a good thing".
Speaking of gentle pressures.......a full case of WC-860 milsurp 50 BMG powder (55.0 grains) imparts 1896-level ballistics to the 140 grain hunting bullets--about 2450 FPS, and GREAT accuracy. This rifle dotes on 140 grain bullets--all of them I have tried.
Differing rifles like different formulae. IMR 4831 has never given me grief or weirdness in 6.5 x 55--it's just a PITA to run through my RCBS powder measure. The throw charges light and trickle them up on a scale. The WC-860 runs like water and measures VERY accurately, as ball powders are wont to do. The O/P may have himself a "Perfect Storm" going on here--tight bore specs and fast twist combining to make things REALLY efficient close to the point of "Too much of a good thing".
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Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I don't use much in the way of "modern" powders. It's nothing newer than the late 80's pretty much here. I have well over a dozen manuals, probably closer to 2.5 doz. When working up a load my first reference is always Ken Waters "Pet Loads". I follow that with older editions of the powder and bullet company manuals. Only then do I go to the current on line references, and I do that mostly for the powders that may have changed from the old formulation. I am past the true hot rodding days and am happy with what I do.
BTW- who was it that had the rifle blow up on him a month back or so? Never saw any more about it! Kevin maybe?
Appliances- FWIW, I get a whole lot of my appliance repair done via You Tube videos. Parts I can usually find, figuring out whats wrong is the issue. We almost always buy the extended warranty and make use of it. And we buy at major retailers that will follow up with repair work. Used to be Sears, now it's Lowes. I have absolutely no use for the so called "water conserving" washers, they suck to put it simply. We got rid of ours and I made sure we got a top loader with an actual agitator, although she wouldn't go for the new old stock Speed Queen I wanted. As far as freezers and refrigerators, we have several and none are any better than any other. I kinda miss the days when seeing "Kenmore" on an appliance meant you could trust the maker!
Got some hay down! Also got a video via phone (my first!) of a fawn I spotted and didn't run over and kill. Awful hard going though. I had to raise the bed on the haybine to about 5-6", way past what the shoes were set at, and never got out of low range. Very slow and even then I'd jam every now and again and smoke the belts. Going to have to adjust them today. Hopefully we'll get this hay rolled up. Cutting high means better regrowth, but "high" usually means 3", not 5"! Rain Fri/Sat they say. I hope not. Wet tires most of the day. I did get a little raking done after supper. I truly love the sight of a field of nicely raked windrows of hay and the smell is out of this world! Nothing like a little sweet clover to make things smell nice.
Wife and daughter were have a "who can be the most miserable to the other" contest yesterday morning. I checked in an hour or so after this started and found all was well. My wife, the woman who wouldn't speak to one of her sisters for 25 years, said, "Oh, you know me, I never stay mad for very long..."
BTW- who was it that had the rifle blow up on him a month back or so? Never saw any more about it! Kevin maybe?
Appliances- FWIW, I get a whole lot of my appliance repair done via You Tube videos. Parts I can usually find, figuring out whats wrong is the issue. We almost always buy the extended warranty and make use of it. And we buy at major retailers that will follow up with repair work. Used to be Sears, now it's Lowes. I have absolutely no use for the so called "water conserving" washers, they suck to put it simply. We got rid of ours and I made sure we got a top loader with an actual agitator, although she wouldn't go for the new old stock Speed Queen I wanted. As far as freezers and refrigerators, we have several and none are any better than any other. I kinda miss the days when seeing "Kenmore" on an appliance meant you could trust the maker!
Got some hay down! Also got a video via phone (my first!) of a fawn I spotted and didn't run over and kill. Awful hard going though. I had to raise the bed on the haybine to about 5-6", way past what the shoes were set at, and never got out of low range. Very slow and even then I'd jam every now and again and smoke the belts. Going to have to adjust them today. Hopefully we'll get this hay rolled up. Cutting high means better regrowth, but "high" usually means 3", not 5"! Rain Fri/Sat they say. I hope not. Wet tires most of the day. I did get a little raking done after supper. I truly love the sight of a field of nicely raked windrows of hay and the smell is out of this world! Nothing like a little sweet clover to make things smell nice.
Wife and daughter were have a "who can be the most miserable to the other" contest yesterday morning. I checked in an hour or so after this started and found all was well. My wife, the woman who wouldn't speak to one of her sisters for 25 years, said, "Oh, you know me, I never stay mad for very long..."
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smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
I too don't have any of the "modern powders". Closest I have to "modern" would be a little Hodgdon 4895 Short Cut.
Have always repaired my own washers and dryers. Back in about 2010 I finally called a repair tech for a mid '90s washer and an early '90s dryer. Tech was surprised to see machines with no "modular PCBs". Tech told me then that even if the machines weren't worth much more than the repair cost, because of the sky-high repair costs of the new tech machines, it's worth repairing the old machines.
After at least 4 repairs to the old washer and 3 to the dryer, I finally broke down and bought two of the new-tech LG machines. Also bought a new LG fridge. Had them now for about 4 years; so far, so good. One thing I can tell you; better have water hammer arrestors on both your cold and hot water sides.
One of the reasons I bought LG was because the Samsungs had worse reviews, I won't touch a GE product and I got a favorable price from Costco and an additional free year of warranty.
My mobility has been seriously compromised for the last week by severe tendonitis in my right ankle. Not the first time. Happened to me about 6 years ago.
Have always repaired my own washers and dryers. Back in about 2010 I finally called a repair tech for a mid '90s washer and an early '90s dryer. Tech was surprised to see machines with no "modular PCBs". Tech told me then that even if the machines weren't worth much more than the repair cost, because of the sky-high repair costs of the new tech machines, it's worth repairing the old machines.
After at least 4 repairs to the old washer and 3 to the dryer, I finally broke down and bought two of the new-tech LG machines. Also bought a new LG fridge. Had them now for about 4 years; so far, so good. One thing I can tell you; better have water hammer arrestors on both your cold and hot water sides.
One of the reasons I bought LG was because the Samsungs had worse reviews, I won't touch a GE product and I got a favorable price from Costco and an additional free year of warranty.
My mobility has been seriously compromised for the last week by severe tendonitis in my right ankle. Not the first time. Happened to me about 6 years ago.
462
California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Bill,
The load was 1.8-grains shy of Hodgdon's published maximum load, so I wasn't trying to match it.
The second round hit about 1" West and pretty much on the same North/South plane, as the first round.
Allen,
I haven't done a chamber cast (I know, I know . . .) but reckon it to be military large, but the grooves measure .267".
Rounds were loaded using PMC fire-formed and Lee collet neck sized brass, though I don't know what their head measurements were, prior to loading.
Brett,
"Pet Loads" is always one of my go-to sources, unfortunately the 6.5 Swede is not included.
The load was 1.8-grains shy of Hodgdon's published maximum load, so I wasn't trying to match it.
The second round hit about 1" West and pretty much on the same North/South plane, as the first round.
Allen,
I haven't done a chamber cast (I know, I know . . .) but reckon it to be military large, but the grooves measure .267".
Rounds were loaded using PMC fire-formed and Lee collet neck sized brass, though I don't know what their head measurements were, prior to loading.
Brett,
"Pet Loads" is always one of my go-to sources, unfortunately the 6.5 Swede is not included.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Michael,
I understand that you weren't pushing anything, just commenting that this is WHY we start low and work
up - each gun is different. You were doing safe and sane reloading, and discovered an issue before it became
a real problem. My only point was to show how much guns "which are just the same" aren't really just the
same. Of course, the two "4831"s aren't the same, either.
Our current washer is about 10 years old, got a drier at the same time, the old washer had been repaired
and repaired for at least 25 years and I got it used. It has been good, no failures so far. The drier is our
first ever - I wanted it, my wife doesn't like driers, much prefers line dried clothes.
Bill
I understand that you weren't pushing anything, just commenting that this is WHY we start low and work
up - each gun is different. You were doing safe and sane reloading, and discovered an issue before it became
a real problem. My only point was to show how much guns "which are just the same" aren't really just the
same. Of course, the two "4831"s aren't the same, either.
Our current washer is about 10 years old, got a drier at the same time, the old washer had been repaired
and repaired for at least 25 years and I got it used. It has been good, no failures so far. The drier is our
first ever - I wanted it, my wife doesn't like driers, much prefers line dried clothes.
Bill
As I posted in #6946 I bought an LG top loader that replaced the top loader that was 5 years old. Rather than fix the old one I bought new because I couldn't find anyone in this area capable of fixing it. A couple of people I called never showed up after making an appointment with them. An appliance store here has a service dept and they sent a kid over whom I had to tell him . . . Yes this is the washing machine. 
Mechanically the old machine was fine, it had to be the circuit board, it would go through the entire wash sequence but then stop, it wouldn't drain the final rinse water, just left the tub full and flash the finished light.
Went to Lowes and bought the LG. I never got a single load of laundry done (as in clean) with it. It had a glass lid so that you could see what it was doing inside. What it did was even with a light load of just a few shirts it didn't add enough water to the machine to get the clothes wet, any clothes sticking up above the water stayed dry until after the rinse cycle and it started to spin. Two or three days on the computer and telephone and I was finally blessed with the opportunity to speak with someone in India. I asked them if the clothes don't get wet how are they going to get clean? Their answer was that Federal regulations dictate how much water can be added to the machine and that the machine is fine and doing what it's supposed to. So I asked what, the machine isn't suppose to get the clothes actually clean then? Answer, the machine is fine, doing what it's supposed to, no fix. no warranty issue.
Lowes has a 30 day don't like it return it policy on appliances and in all due haste I did just that. I bought the Whirlpool front loader from Lowes and added the extended warranty. So far so good. Two things about the front loader, 1> This machine gets clothes cleaner than any machine I've ever had. 2> It has an auto add detergent feature that is amazingly stingy with detergent. Fill up the detergent tub and it adds the detergent for each wash load. I admit I have always used too much going on the theory that if this much is good this much is better. Now I'm amazed at how much detergent I used to buy and how little I actually buy now. And the clothes are actually cleaner.
About the Lowes extended warranty, it states that if they can't get it fixed in two weeks they replace it with an equivalent new machine. As hard as it seems to be to get appliances serviced in this area that was the tipping point on why I got the extended warranty.
Mechanically the old machine was fine, it had to be the circuit board, it would go through the entire wash sequence but then stop, it wouldn't drain the final rinse water, just left the tub full and flash the finished light.Went to Lowes and bought the LG. I never got a single load of laundry done (as in clean) with it. It had a glass lid so that you could see what it was doing inside. What it did was even with a light load of just a few shirts it didn't add enough water to the machine to get the clothes wet, any clothes sticking up above the water stayed dry until after the rinse cycle and it started to spin. Two or three days on the computer and telephone and I was finally blessed with the opportunity to speak with someone in India. I asked them if the clothes don't get wet how are they going to get clean? Their answer was that Federal regulations dictate how much water can be added to the machine and that the machine is fine and doing what it's supposed to. So I asked what, the machine isn't suppose to get the clothes actually clean then? Answer, the machine is fine, doing what it's supposed to, no fix. no warranty issue.
Lowes has a 30 day don't like it return it policy on appliances and in all due haste I did just that. I bought the Whirlpool front loader from Lowes and added the extended warranty. So far so good. Two things about the front loader, 1> This machine gets clothes cleaner than any machine I've ever had. 2> It has an auto add detergent feature that is amazingly stingy with detergent. Fill up the detergent tub and it adds the detergent for each wash load. I admit I have always used too much going on the theory that if this much is good this much is better. Now I'm amazed at how much detergent I used to buy and how little I actually buy now.
And the clothes are actually cleaner.About the Lowes extended warranty, it states that if they can't get it fixed in two weeks they replace it with an equivalent new machine. As hard as it seems to be to get appliances serviced in this area that was the tipping point on why I got the extended warranty.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Years ago, at a appliance parts supplier in Detroit. The counter guy told me stay away from anything GE. Proprietary parts were expensive and hard to get..........buy anything else!
When we built in 2011 we ordered all new appliances. Whirlpool washer and dryer and upright freezer. The freezer quit working a couple of years ago and is now being used to store gunpowder and brass in my basement shop. Replaced that with a Frigidaire, based on the local appliance shop's recommendation. Same shop, Rick referred to, that supposedly fixes what they sell. They are the only local store, besides Lowe's and HD, that sell appliances.
The freezer is mandatory, since Cindy insisted on a Sub Zero all refrigerator. Maintains, she never has enough refrigerator space, with the side by sides. We also have a Samsung side by side in the basement...........for beverages, frozen fish and venison.
Dual fuel range and drawer type dishwasher are DCS............division of Fisher Paykel.
Knock on wood, all the rest, have been working as they should.
When we built in 2011 we ordered all new appliances. Whirlpool washer and dryer and upright freezer. The freezer quit working a couple of years ago and is now being used to store gunpowder and brass in my basement shop. Replaced that with a Frigidaire, based on the local appliance shop's recommendation. Same shop, Rick referred to, that supposedly fixes what they sell. They are the only local store, besides Lowe's and HD, that sell appliances.
The freezer is mandatory, since Cindy insisted on a Sub Zero all refrigerator. Maintains, she never has enough refrigerator space, with the side by sides. We also have a Samsung side by side in the basement...........for beverages, frozen fish and venison.
Dual fuel range and drawer type dishwasher are DCS............division of Fisher Paykel.
Knock on wood, all the rest, have been working as they should.
Well. there is Sears Home Town but . . . When I bought the front loader washer the Sears store had exactly the same make/model washer on sale at to the penny the same price except . . . Lowes has free delivery on appliances over $399 and Sears doesn't have the repair or replace policy, Sears not only gets $70 delivery but also charges to take the old machine. The Sears place is like that on about everything it seems. Only thing I've bought there was the water softener which they also wanted $70 delivery, I took it with me. So to buy the washer from Sears would be a minimum $100 more for the exact same machine and without the replacement warranty.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Sears used to do all that stuff better than anyone else, and had superb parts stores for appliances. The current
owner who is gutting the corporation has removed all of that stuff - and unsurprisingly, driving away customers.
Sad to see. Since I was a kid in the 50s, Sears was THE place to go to get Kenmore branded (I know they
didn't make them) appliances, with service and parts reliably available. Not so much any more, but we did
buy our current washer and drier from Sears, both Kenmore brand. I am pretty sure that they are Whirlpool
made. But that was 10 years ago, IIRC.
Lowe's bought out Craftsman, maybe the leaders at Lowes have decided that the Sears business model
was good, if it was followed properly.
owner who is gutting the corporation has removed all of that stuff - and unsurprisingly, driving away customers.
Sad to see. Since I was a kid in the 50s, Sears was THE place to go to get Kenmore branded (I know they
didn't make them) appliances, with service and parts reliably available. Not so much any more, but we did
buy our current washer and drier from Sears, both Kenmore brand. I am pretty sure that they are Whirlpool
made. But that was 10 years ago, IIRC.
Lowe's bought out Craftsman, maybe the leaders at Lowes have decided that the Sears business model
was good, if it was followed properly.
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Pistolero
Well-Known Member
HAH! I just got off the phone with the doc's office and I am cleared to drive, with an automatic. I haven't taken
any of the narcotic pain killers, only tylenol the whole time, and am getting around pretty decently, although clearly
still a long way to go on bending the knee as far as I want to be able to bend it. And the day after PT is still a rougher
day.
Actually, I checked yesterday and the clutch is no issue at all with my left (reworked) leg, but I will let the
manual transmission go for next week or at least a few more days. Today is two weeks from surgery.
So if you are in the southwestern side of the KC metro area - beware the bronze 4Runner.
with an automatic. I haven't takenany of the narcotic pain killers, only tylenol the whole time, and am getting around pretty decently, although clearly
still a long way to go on bending the knee as far as I want to be able to bend it. And the day after PT is still a rougher
day.
Actually, I checked yesterday and the clutch is no issue at all with my left (reworked) leg, but I will let the
manual transmission go for next week or at least a few more days. Today is two weeks from surgery.
So if you are in the southwestern side of the KC metro area - beware the bronze 4Runner.
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
I haven't ventured into clutches and manual transmissions with the aftermarket left leg yet. That might wait until the permanent prosthesis gets in place and gets broken in. CONGRATS on getting turned loose to drive!
I need to visit the toy store today, the new Ruger single-action is supposed to be there by now. Also due to arrive is my order of unleaded rimfire ammo in 22 LR and 22 Win Mag RF, so I imagine the shop owner would like to get paid. This will be my first time getting my background checked to buy ammo in CA's new system, and since the day will be messed up in that manner I'll double-down and run the DROS on the new Ruger at the same time. Emperor Gavin The Gruesome will get paid today, IOW--$19 for the DROS, and $1 for the ammo buy. I imagine that ammo tariff will get larger before long, which means that a trip to Yuma and Sprague's Sporting Goods is in order.
And maybe see a realtor as well. Yuma makes a lot of sense, for the things I like to do. Shooting country for sure--part of the USA--and 3 hours from Mission Bay and ocean fishing by freeway. Where I live now is 2.5 hours+, with traffic. Yuma cuts the drive time to Lake Havasu in half, as well. What's not to like?
I need to visit the toy store today, the new Ruger single-action is supposed to be there by now. Also due to arrive is my order of unleaded rimfire ammo in 22 LR and 22 Win Mag RF, so I imagine the shop owner would like to get paid. This will be my first time getting my background checked to buy ammo in CA's new system, and since the day will be messed up in that manner I'll double-down and run the DROS on the new Ruger at the same time. Emperor Gavin The Gruesome will get paid today, IOW--$19 for the DROS, and $1 for the ammo buy. I imagine that ammo tariff will get larger before long, which means that a trip to Yuma and Sprague's Sporting Goods is in order.
And maybe see a realtor as well. Yuma makes a lot of sense, for the things I like to do. Shooting country for sure--part of the USA--and 3 hours from Mission Bay and ocean fishing by freeway. Where I live now is 2.5 hours+, with traffic. Yuma cuts the drive time to Lake Havasu in half, as well. What's not to like?
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
DROS???? Some sort of added background check? Hey, it's not like you were somebody trusted with a gun,
like a retired cop with a concealed carry permit.....
Oh, well. Hoops is hoops, gotta be jumped through.
Hope you can do clutch work, Allen. Good luck on real estate hunting. I have no idea what it is like in Yuma
area, but there may be more folks with your same idea in mind.
like a retired cop with a concealed carry permit.....
Oh, well. Hoops is hoops, gotta be jumped through.
Hope you can do clutch work, Allen. Good luck on real estate hunting. I have no idea what it is like in Yuma
area, but there may be more folks with your same idea in mind.
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It's not like people aren't bailing out in droves or anything. With you enjoying the heat like you do Yuma should be a wise choice.