Some old Photos for your enjoyment

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
I'll try to put this as delicately as possible. The military used to be a haven for people who couldn't get jobs elsewhere for various reasons. That option has dwindled for many, and now we have a real homeless problem. The two situations aren't directly related, but sorta'. There are a lot of people who need some forms of enforced structure in order to thrive. There has to be some sort of acceptable medium here. I just don't know what it is. Welfare apparently wasn't the answer. I danced around this as much as possible to try avoid making a social issue a political one. Please delete this post if I was unsuccessful.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Ya did fine. Used to be a guy that never got past 3rd grade could support himself and his family by tailing lumber at a sawmill or working at a handle factory, or doing any number of other jobs that have been automated or simply passed out of existence due to changing times. One of the best chainsaw mechanics I ever met literally could not read anything beyond things like brand names on a box of soap or write anything beyond his own name. He couldn't tell you much in the way of numbers past 10. Seriously. Great mechanic though, excellent memory for things he could see first hand and get his hands on. But he couldn't read enough to pass his drivers permit test. His wife drove him everywhere. He made enough of a living to keep his family fed (she worked too) and raise a kid. I don't think you can do that anymore.

The military also used to take people who had brushes with the law. I'm told now that it's not fighting and theft that they "slide" under the radar but drugs, drugs , drugs. Kinda makes ya wonder if at least some of the PTSD our returning guys suffer isn't based partially in whatever drugs they were using or used while in the service.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
I worked some of those jobs, Bill, even all the way through my 20s, and was once unemployed for six-months. The only handout I ever took was $5 gas money I asked to borrow from my father. Now, I gladly accept the monthly Socialists Security check only because it was stolen from me, in the first place.

I never knew a thing about drugs, other than reading about what was going on in Haight-Ashbury, till I was in Viet Nam. One day, an aircraft crew chief asked me if I wanted to smoke some dope (I was a weapons mechanic and would run across him on the flightline). Being young and dumb, I said yes, and he said to meet him at a certain spot beyond the barracks the next time we were attacked. The next attack found me at the pre-arranged spot, but he never showed up.

Back in the States, a new guy assigned to our shop had the same as the the guy in Viet Nam, they're brothers. Anyway, the Viet Nam guy was somehow buying dope and mailing it to an address in New York City -- his hometown -- and his friends would pick it up and distribute the stuff.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
I never took any welfare (could have qualified, I'd bet when I was a grad student), worked and never took drugs.
I think that many of the poor in the pix were actually better off than many of our poor (rich by 1930s stds) today
in many ways.

People need to be challenged, too easy a life for whatever reason isn't ultimately good for a person, in lots
of different ways.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Why work at a hard, dirty, low paying job if you can collect a check for doing nothing?


Ummm, personal pride? Character? Right and wrong? Not that I'm any paragon of virtue, but I started applying for Unemployment once. Went to the initial interview and that's as far as I could stomach. I ate a lot of road kill that winter, but I wasn't about to lower myself to being what they were treating people like.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
People need to be challenged, too easy a life for whatever reason isn't ultimately good for a person, in lots
of different ways.

I've always been of the opinion, based on life experience, that the people that have it easiest in school and have to work at fitting in and what not do better in meeting lifes challenges than those that were the sports heroes and Prom queens. Some of those people from my school are still sitting on a barstool every night living out Bruce Springsteins "Glory Days" song.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Things have changed Bret. No more window E. These days ya just fill out a form online and auto deposits into your account begin just like penny's from heaven.
 

Hawk

Well-Known Member
I and my wife never received a penny from anyone our whole lives. Got married when I was 20 and she was 19.
I worked two jobs and she worked one, until we could finally save enough to buy a house. Then I put myself thru college.
Our Parents said "as soon as you say I do in marriage, you're on you're own.
I just don't understand today's generation.
Everyday, I see people in traffic with signs, begging for money. In their 30s or 40s with nothing wrong with them. They could work, but decide to beg instead.
I've got two nephews that have never worked a day in their lives. They are in their late 30s. Found women who will support them. I just don't understand. Not the way I was raised. You pull your own weight.
Sorry, I'll get off the soap box.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Well, of course, Bret, that's why I never even considered any government checks of any kind. But today....
seems like lots of folks are not interested in personal pride, just the easiest way. All sorts of paths in life,
seems like making it too easy for folks, whether because Mom and Dad have plenty of money, or
by getting a handout too easily, does not make for a great outcome.
I really think humans need to be challenged and to have to struggle a bit to make it, it is somewhere
hardwired in our nature. If that gets short circuited by too much money or too easy living for other
reasons, I think the person suffers, even if they don't/won't see it.

Bill
 
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Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I could mention the rush to socia.....well, best not to go there. Suffice it to say I think most of us are in agreement that a bit of a challenge in life, beyond your phone battery dying or not being able to get good Thai food, breeds better adjusted and more capable people than those that have had everything they want handed to them.

I have a relative that I've never actually met that I'm told recently got the latest I phone by threatening his mother he would kill himself if she didn't buy it for him. She bought it. He "ran away from home" when he was 19 and wound up in an ER ODing because she wouldn't buy him another toy and it's been that way ever since. Sad.
 
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358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
We have a fairly large homeless camp less than a mile from my work. We also have a large Wal-Mart about a block away, so we get free shows every day. We used to have a guy working for us who grew up around these sort of people, and we would have some interesting discussions about the beggars. His thoughts were really insightful, since he grew up on the fringe of these groups. He told me to never give them money, if people would quit giving away free money, these people would be working at least part time, doing something, anything, to make a buck. They beg because it's free, easy money, and some of them make more money than we do. Tax free. He salso said that without exception, these are also people who have lied, cheated, and stolen from people who loved and trusted them, burning their bridges to return home. Good samaritans think they're giving these people some help surviving in a day to day existence, but this is exactly the opposite of reality. I thought he was pretty harsh with his viewpoint until I heard the Director of the local City Mission on the radio shortly thereafter, saying the exact same thing. Ol' Pastor Tom said that these people will not get help on their own, and the only way to actually help them was to donate to the help agencies who shelter & feed the homeless so that these people will be forced to get professional help from the agencies that have the training and the resources to actually help.
 

Hawk

Well-Known Member
The parents are definitely the problem with my two nephews that have never worked. The Mom's thought they were special as they grew up and never disciplined them or held them responsible for anything.
They are now exactly what they were taught to be.
Don't know what they are going to do when their Mom's pass and all of their support stops.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Yup. Telling a kid he did good when he did good is one thing. Telling him he's God's gift to humanity after he's screwed up...that never made sense to me, but some people tell me I'm a bit harsh.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Everybody needs to know that they are loved by their parents and family, and that they are owed NOTHING WHATSOEVER
by the rest of the world. This is not to make them sad, but to prepare them for the REAL WORLD.
The sooner they get this in their heads, the better they will do. Imagining that you are "special" is a fantasy
which is liable to cost you dearly at some point, up to your life, in certain situations if you
don't grasp it properly.

No need to and I don't want to, ever run anybody down, but we all need to recognize that we are all just
faces in the crowd, except to our loved ones and friends where we EARN the friendship and recognition.
We should expect fair treatment, but nothing special.

Bill
 

Urny

Missouri Ozarks, heart still in the Ruby Mountains
Unlike Ben's mountain lion, I mostly try to keep my mouth shut around here, but the exchanges about useless, unproductive ingrates leads me into a tale that unfortunately is true...

When our kids had all graduated from high school and were moving right along with their own lives quite well, Linda and I decided to do something to contribute to our community with both some of our time, and less importantly some of our money. We saw a notice in the local daily that a disabled veteran was in need of housing and other sorts of minor assistance. Thinking we were doing a Good Thing, we stepped up and took him into our home, providing lodging, food, and we thought perhaps some transportation should he need it.

He showed up at our home with his social worker, his canes and wheelchair. After the social worker had talked with us a bit about his disabilities and needs she left. He asked if we could drive him to get his car. I am convinced the social worker knew nothing of the car which was a fairly late model compact. He folded his wheelchair up and put it in the trunk, then returned to the house where he stowed the canes in the bedroom we provided. Seems he could get along OK without either canes or wheelchair, if only for a while. He had an income from whatever disability program he was on and needed only to pay the deductibles for medication (not much) and clothing and car costs. I think he had more disposable income than we did.

We learned a bit over the next weeks about his disability that was not connected to his military service, drugs were the cause from after his discharge under other than honorable conditions, his addiction to gambling, and his astonishing ability to raise money by begging. He would drive to the local shopping center and set up his wheelchair by the road, plop himself down and 'fly my sign'. The sign was big on the disabled veteran bit, requested any kind of help people were willing to give, and raked in an average of about $100 an hour, according to his own testimony. He would buy a few luxury items at the grocery store, bring it back to our house, and then return to the commercial area. He would loose all the remaining money at the Scoreboard casino in a couple of hours or three. This was repeated every week, sometimes twice in a week.

Wife Linda thinks American Independent Party is to bleeding liberal and his conduct began to grate on her, especially after we saw a young mother stop and hand him a $100 bill. Apparently she contributed often, though usually only ten or twenty bucks. I wondered if her husband was out at one of the mines working half a ten or twelve hour shift for that hundred. She finally threw him out after he flew the sign, lost all the money at the casino, and then asked Linda to pay for his medicines because he was broke.

He went to the emergency room, was admitted for 'heart problems' and stayed in the hospital until the social worker got him a very nice apartment in town and took him there, at your expense I am sure. Still there I expect.

My apologies for the length of this post, which is very much a digest version of the whole sordid tale, and for rudely imposing on a post not my own.