Teach me to use a ladle properly....

waco

Springfield, Oregon
As some of you may have read in a different post I have an NOE RG4 mold on the way. Someone had mentioned that it was a PITA to use with a bottom pour pot like my RCBS because of the metal brackets on the bottom of the mold.

I have two ladles in the shop. I have never used a ladle to cast with. Anyone care to share their tips or tricks when using a ladle? I'm not sure what brand these are. I didn't see any markings on them.
 

gman

Well-Known Member
I started with an RCBS ladle which looks similar to the one at the top of the picture. I drilled the hole out larger on the spout and that made it better. I have switched to a Rowell #1 which is much better. Not sure about the bottom ladle. With the smaller ladle you will have to refill to get all cavities filled I'm sure. You can fill each cavity until it flows over to help get the mold to temp if it isn't pre heated enough. The mold will tell you what to do.
 

yodogsandman

Well-Known Member
Flux and skim off the surface using a spoon type ladle.
Preheat the ladle on top of the melt.
When dipping the bottom pour ladle, swirl any contaminates to the sides of the pot before dipping.
Fill the bottom pour dipper.
Turn the mold sideways from the left hand if right handed.
Insert spout in the mold cavity.
Invert the mold and the ladle in one motion to right side up, sprue hole side up to fill the cavity.
Wait a few seconds for the cavity to pull lead from the ladle as it sets, then start to turn the mold back to the sideways position.
Pull the spout away from the sprue plate allowing a little melted lead to run off the sprue plate and mold side.
Fully turn the mold back and repeat for with the next cavity.

I might be a bit rusty on this, it's been 30 plus years since I used a bottom pour ladle.
 
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Chris

Well-Known Member
Yodog said it about right regarding pressure casting. Or you can just pour the alloy in, depends on what your mold likes.

I cast a lot of heavy bullets and have come to like a Rowell... mine is the number 2 and it holds a crapload of lead. You can fill a 4 cavity 45 caliber and still have plenty of lead to pour extra on the sprue plate... which you should.

Still you can get going fine with what you have.
 

Chris

Well-Known Member
I would love to learn ladle casting: great post!

Others will chime in... but I think ladle casting is simplicity itself, as they say. You can see exactly what you are pouring , what rate and what speed. You can pressure pour with the ladles Waco shows or gravity pour with a ladle such as a Rowell.

I have never used a bottom pour pot and see no reason to do so. The ladle gives you complete control and if bullets turn out badly just adjust your technique.
 

yodogsandman

Well-Known Member
I'd only go back to it for pure lead slugs over 400 grains, if at all. What a PITA it was and soooo slow! Casting with a bottom pour pot is worth it just to keep any contaminates out of the cavity. They're all floating on the top of the pot where you're dipping from. I can sit now instead of having to stand, too.
 

waco

Springfield, Oregon
Sounds like a little trial and error and I should be of and running. I'll give it a go.
 

Chris

Well-Known Member
There's a real divide in the cast universe between bottom vs. ladle pour. No big deal, do what you like and mainly what works.

Waco, since you asked about ladles you own and about ladle pour... give it a shot. There's pressure casting and there's pouring... there's the matter of enough alloy volume to let you make enough sprue to fill out the bullet.

Still, it's all common sense and why not try it out?
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I'd only go back to it for pure lead slugs over 400 grains, if at all. What a PITA it was and soooo slow! Casting with a bottom pour pot is worth it just to keep any contaminates out of the cavity. They're all floating on the top of the pot where you're dipping from. I can sit now instead of having to stand, too.

You shouldn't be dipping from the surface of the pot regardless of the ladling method used. I use a Rowell which is a bottom pour ladle & I fill it from the center of the pot, not the surface. When filling the mold the Rowell pours alloy from the bottom of the ladle. In effect I bottom pour from the top. Nothing floating on the top of my alloy, I flux before each casting session and the surface is mirror bright. With a far lower reject rate ladle casting it isn't much if any slower than bottom pouring. Sandman it kinda sounds like you didn't give the ladle a fair test but as long as your happy with your method it's the right way for you.
.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Three things come to mind. First, don't bother unless you have a 2# Rowel. Reason has to do with keeping the alloy temperature constant and sometimes needing more reserve volume to "pour heat" as Rick refers to it on the sprue plate after the cavities are full. You need a lot of lead to keep a four-cavity .35 caliber mould happy.

Second, there are a lot of little nooks and crannies in a Cramer-type HP mould and pressure-casting with a ladle can cause a lot of flashing as alloy is forced into those tiny gaps and cause buildup, hangups, and an unintentionally "Beagled" mould. I recommend sluicing the alloy into the cavities with bout a half-inch gap between spout and sprue hole, and making the alloy "spurt" out to rinse away dross and bubbles that tend to collect under the sprue plate during any kind of pour. Further, rotating the mould to couple with the ladle and then righting the two together slows down the process and you lose a lot of head because you must wait for the previous sprue to freeze before tilting the mould to fill the next cavity. With a four-cavity, obviously that means you have to wait through four full sprue freezes before you can open the mould.

Third, until you get good at it, a ladle my be a bit frustrating because it is difficult to do quickly even if you don't contact-pour. Speed is of the essence with a multi-hole HP mould.

I use a bottom-pour for almost everything. Some things are best done with a ladle, but technique can make those very few. A bottom pour is very fast and very effective at filling a bunch of cavities with precision. Actually, so is a big ladle once you get used to it, so it's most definitely worth mastering both and then YOU can decide which is best for a particular task.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
If time allows tomorrow I will see if I can get a short video of how I do it.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I'm going to have to buy another ladle, the guy at work I loaned mine to quit a few weeks ago and disappeared.
 

waco

Springfield, Oregon
It was just a thought. If the mold guide on my RCBS pot doesn't get in the way too badly, I'll just use it.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
you can just use one or two cavity's of your mold until you get things figured out.
I would rather go a bit more smoothly and efficiently than go faster and get it all wrong.
 
F

freebullet

Guest
I must be doing something wrong as I've never got ladle to match bottom pour speed. Bigger or better bullets sure but, as many-nope. That leaves me bottom pouring more often than not.

I for one would appreciate seeing our more experienced members ladle casting. It seems setting up & cadence are the trick.

So, for example average 9mm sessions, bottom pour=2-2200 in 4hr & ladle only 1-1200 in 4hr. I don't often cast more than 4 hours after that point it's work. I'll note that #2 ladle wears me down faster and it still feels like an awkward cadence.

Maybe I'm missing something.