Teach me to use a ladle properly....

[yodogsandman]

Be aware that using a faster cadence and a little hotter alloy will help to keep the pins the hottest for more problem free casts. That goes with any method you decide to use. There's a learning curve to using an RG type mold to get the pins in to the same position with each cast. I give the mold a shake just as I close the mold, to help.

 

[Rick]

I must be doing something wrong as I've never got ladle to match bottom pour speed. Bigger or better bullets sure but, as many-nope. That leaves me bottom pouring more often than not.

I for one would appreciate seeing our more experienced members ladle casting. It seems setting up & cadence are the trick.

So, for example average 9mm sessions, bottom pour=2-2200 in 4hr & ladle only 1-1200 in 4hr. I don't often cast more than 4 hours after that point it's work. I'll note that #2 ladle wears me down faster and it still feels like an awkward cadence.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Well one difference for me is that never do I cast to see how many in an hour I can get. Would be a waste of time for me when I threw half them back in the pot. I cast for the quality of the bullets I get and never how many. I probably could get a larger pile of bullets bottom pouring if speed were my highest priority but my reject rate would be far higher negating much of both a higher count and a lot of work.
.

 

[fiver]

if you can keep the mold and ladle and top of the pot all about elbow height.
things go smoother and are less taxing.
I save the ladle for the bigger molds or for the single cavity's.
and of course for the 4 cavity bench mounted core molds, but there the ladle is just a way to move lead from the pot to the mold.

 

[358156 hp]

You can match the speed of a bottom pour if you use a large enough ladle. The ladle capacity is critical for 4+ cavity moulds. My every day ladle is one of the later production RCBS ones with a reversible handle. Being left-handed works against me with a Rowell ladle. I too own a #2, but I need to turn it over to my machinist to convert to left-hand operation. He'll probably want to simply make me a complete new ladle, and that's okay too. For now I still use my RCBS ladle for 4+ cavity moulds, I just fill 2 cavities at a time. Temp control is easier with the ladle as well, you can control the mould temp by regulating the lead flow and "spill over" from the sprue plate.

I've had a number of multi cavity moulds that seem to have unique personalities for each cavity. My 4 cavity 452460 should have been named "Sybil", each cavity behaves slightly different, and I have to cast with it in reverse cavity order. If I cast front to rear, the last cavity invariably delivers rounded bases. If I go back to front and vary the flow a bit as I go, all four fill out perfectly. I've broken the parting line edges, but it still seems to want to vent forward. Oh yeah either way, cavity two wants a touch of pressure at the start of the fill, and likes a slightly longer pour. As you might guess, this mould is almost unusable with bottom pour, but it's an excellent example of the control you can get from the ladle. And weight consistency is always superb.

 

[freebullet]

Well one difference for me is that never do I ......... if speed were my highest priority but my reject rate would be far higher negating much of both a higher count and a lot of work.
.

I totally get the quality over quantity and agree with your reasoning. The question still remains for folks new to ladle casting. What kind of production rate are you getting in various calibers/sizes. What height, table or bench, and numerous other questions a guy can't fathom to even ask all of when starting out. Which brings us back to how valuable of a resource seeing you acomplished elder castmen do it with our eyes....like that.

For my volume needs I'm not a good enough ladler to make it worth while. Some good tips already provided here and looking forward to more.

 

[Ian]

Set up at least 40 lbs of alloy in a pot between your knees. Rest the hinge bolt of the mould handles on the edge of the pot to steady it and reduce hand fatigue. Grab the ladle from where the reservoir was floating in the alloy with handle resting on the edge of the pot, dig up some metal from near the bottom of the pot, and rest your forearm on your thigh to steady it. Roll the ladle to fill each cavity, one at a time, bloop-bloop-bloop etc then draw a stream back across the whole row on the sprue plate to keep the heat on. Let the ladle go in the pot again and watch the sprue. Cut the sprue with a gloved thumb, dump sprue and all the little frozen rivulets off of the mould, open the blocks and dump the bullets to which ever side is most comfortable (bench or stool right against the outside of one of your legs), and repeat. Wear a leather apron to cover your chest, lap and thighs so any mishaps funnel away from you since you won't be able to jump back easily with this cozy and comfortable setup. Yes, you'll need a sheet metal heat shield about knee-spread width, curved around the pot and burner from ground to top of pot or you'll char your kneecaps.

 

[Brad]

Not the best video but it is what my wife could get with a GoPro.

I keep the ladle in the pot between pours. I start pouring lead before it gets into cavities. I pour for a second or two after cavity is full. I then move to the next cavity and so on. Once done I put the ladle back in the melt and watch the sprue for change in color telling me it is time to cut.
I can control mould temp easily, in particular hotter, by pouring lead over mould for a longer period at each cavity. Lots of heat transfer going on that way. I slow the entire pour/dump cycle to cool the mould when needed.

 

[Rick]

Brad you won't believe how much easier that will be come the 25th when you get your new 40 pound Magma.

 

[Ian]

Yep, that's how it's done. With a big pot set lower, I hold the ladle and mould pretty close to parallel but with the handles on the same end, in other words I work the ladle 180 degrees opposite of what you're doing, but you are working around the bottom pour linkage of your pot.

Soooo, how about a Magma pot for Christmas instead of a mill?

 

[Ian]

Brad you won't believe how much easier that will be come the 25th when you get your new 40 pound Magma.

Dammit Rick get off my brain wave!

 

[Brad]

Comments on technique overall Rick?

Ever since I got the #2 Rowell I haven't even considered bottom pour. My ladle never drips. The ladle never freezes up. I can fill my Lee 6 cav 420 gr 45-70 mould on a single ladle full. Heat control of mould is far easier. Moulds with small cavities are far easier to keep to temp.

Yep, I am a confirmed ladle man now.

 

[Brad]

I have a hankering for a 40 pound Magma pot with PID attached. Pretty sure the wife knows.

 

[Rick]

She has the pot ordered doesn't she? There is a good chance this time of year they will be out and on a waiting list.

 

[Ian]

You can fill a lot of enormous cavities faster and with much lower turbulence with a ladle than with a bottom-pour pot. Anyone watching the video pay attention to the stream of alloy going into the cavities and how it is very high volume but low pressure. This is what you want to reduce bubbles, oxide dross inclusions, and have that little instant where the whole cavity is full of fully-molten metal rather than it freezing from the nose up while you're trying to finish the pour.

 

[yodogsandman]

Good video, Brad! I've never used that type of ladle to cast with and can see why you're sold on it. I'll give that a shot myself. Only use that type of ladle for pouring ingots normally. Think I have a #1 and a #3, will have to check.

Will make sure the pant legs cover my boot tops first though, too.

 

[freebullet]

Big thanks to Brad's wife for video production duties.

Really good tips there. I've been doing it sitting by a 60lbs pot on a propane burner. Only practice that for certain bullet designs where I don't need a ton.

 

[Brad]

I rest the mould on the edge of the pot. The mould is tilted so the excess lead drains right into the pot.
I find it to give less splash than bottom pour. I really don't miss that infernal drip that always splashed bit of lead on me. I don't miss those pin point little burns on my arms.

 

[Ian]

You also don't get that crick in your neck from having to compromise comfortable working height with being able to peer under the pot and watch the alloy stream go in the mould.

 

[Chris]

Not the best video but it is what my wife could get with a GoPro.

I keep the ladle in the pot between pours. I start pouring lead before it gets into cavities. I pour for a second or two after cavity is full. I then move to the next cavity and so on. Once done I put the ladle back in the melt and watch the sprue for change in color telling me it is time to cut.
I can control mould temp easily, in particular hotter, by pouring lead over mould for a longer period at each cavity. Lots of heat transfer going on that way. I slow the entire pour/dump cycle to cool the mould when needed.

That is how I do it too. Fast, easy, controlled. It's especially valuable for heavy bullets where you want extra alloy for the sprues to draw in.

 

[Bret4207]

I've never gotten the hang of BP casting. You can't see the spout and hole unless you have it at eye level. And you basically have one or 2 options on how you pour with a BP. I have moulds that like a contact "pressure pour", some that like a dead center drop from an inch or so, others that need a bigger drop or an off center drop or some other bizarre desire on the part of the mould that a ladle handles perfectly. I use an old Lyman as pictured at the start of this thread, a ho'made soup ladle type that holds much more or a #1 Rowell with my 10 cav H+G. I cast everything from 22's to 45 in solid and HP. A ladle works fine for all of it. I do have a couple of 10 lbs SAECO pots that I want to try piggy backing, but I just haven't got to it yet. I don't see how anyone could possibly increase the speed I get with the H+G and Rowell with a BP. It's ladle and drop, ladle and drop, ladle and drop. Same for a lot of my 4 bangers.

To each their own I guess.