Trouble seating gas checks ? ?

[9.3X62AL]

Made up a 25 caliber GC flaring tool yesterday using The Ben Method (1/4" hex bolt/hacksaw/file). Going slowly, since the ball game was on, I had specs where I wanted them in 30 minutes. It does a fine job on the checks.

Rick's method has appeal also--no place on the existing bench to mount the grinder, though. Maybe I could jury-rig the grinder to a Workmate. Dunno.

I suppose my baseline annoyance here is with the GC makers--in particular Hornady, who advertises their wares as being "crimp-on". Since the things are being crimped on to the shank, why not make them with a bit more flare than what they (don't) have now? Makes ya wonder if the folks making these things have ever used their products in the real world. Just another shooting product that the buyer has to finish making in order to use properly, which is becoming a thematic element throughout this hobby field. Much of what we buy and use in this sport should more properly be sold as a kit item, "semi-finished", with warnings like "Some assembly may be required" clearly posted in ads and on packaging. Rant concluded.

 

[RBHarter]

Made up a 25 caliber GC flaring tool yesterday using The Ben Method (1/4" hex bolt/hacksaw/file). Going slowly, since the ball game was on, I had specs where I wanted them in 30 minutes. It does a fine job on the checks.

Rick's method has appeal also--no place on the existing bench to mount the grinder, though. Maybe I could jury-rig the grinder to a Workmate. Dunno.

I suppose my baseline annoyance here is with the GC makers--in particular Hornady, who advertises their wares as being "crimp-on". Since the things are being crimped on to the shank, why not make them with a bit more flare than what they (don't) have now? Makes ya wonder if the folks making these things have ever used their products in the real world. Just another shooting product that the buyer has to finish making in order to use properly, which is becoming a thematic element throughout this hobby field. Much of what we buy and use in this sport should more properly be sold as a kit item, "semi-finished", with warnings like "Some assembly may be required" clearly posted in ads and on packaging. Rant concluded.

If they did that we would be polishing everything to fit and finish and have to do all the heat treatment.....

 

[Ben]

Makes ya wonder if the folks making these things have ever used their products in the real world.

A big AMEN to that Al.

Ben

 

[Brad]

Hey Freebullet, here is the easy part.

 

[9.3X62AL]

If they did that we would be polishing everything to fit and finish and have to do all the heat treatment.....

Seems that we are close to that situation now in some respects. Ah, I'm just a crotchety old curmudgeon spoiled by the craftmanship of a bygone age. Old Ideal moulds are such a delight to use, and some of the current Lymans on hand here.......well, I'll be charitable and call them "adequate".

 

[Ben]

Yes, and many aren't even "adequate".

Ben

 

[gman]

I need one or two or three of this tool.

 

[freebullet]

Very nice, Brad.

Your threading looks great. I will definitely put it to use when I get one.

 

[Ian]

Custom jobbie for an arbor press with 3/8" hole and grub screw in the ram. Oil-hardened, polished, and drawn to light straw on the tip.

Cupped face to match Hornady checks and not flatten them.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Im late to this 5+ year ol meeting...

Has anyone seen or used the NOE kit?

Basically makes your SS press a arbor press utilizing a Lyman/RCBS top punch. Seats the most stubborn check completely, straight & true. With some powder coats this kit is quite helpful. I have since more perfected my Powder Coating to make GC usage more normal.

I have a few videos using this tool. Basically its a die body bored to fit there sizer dies as well as a anvil and a shell holder adaptor to hold the top punches. One tip if ya buy & I have emailed Al about this. Drill a V small hole in the bottom center of this adapor as Als tolerances are tight and some top punches actually wont seat from air pressure. I Also polish the stems for easier usage.

This is my preferred method of seating since straying away from the Lyman 450.

CW

 

[ShamusSage]

I've been using the NOE gas check seating tool for a while now. I haven't reloaded any smaller calibers lately, but the tool works especially good on the larger stuff like the .50 Short Rifle gas checks. I reload for my .45/70 mostly and the .018 thick gas checks go on much easier with that tool. My .30's go on easy, so I haven't used it for that. I would buy it again, good seating tool IMO.

 

[Brad]

I prefer to flare the check so they don’t scrape lead on seating.

You should meet the guy who designed the NOE flare tool, hell of a nice guy.

 

[Rick]

I prefer to flare the check so they don’t scrape lead on seating.

You should meet the guy who designed the NOE flare tool, hell of a nice guy.

Yeah one hell of a nice guy for sure. I know him well.

 

[L Ross]

View attachment 20213

Custom jobbie for an arbor press with 3/8" hole and grub screw in the ram. Oil-hardened, polished, and drawn to light straw on the tip.

Cupped face to match Hornady checks and not flatten them.

View attachment 20214

Be still my little palpitating ticker. The checks that come off this tool are perfectly flared, perfectly.. The control possible using this punch in an old 1 ton Dake arbor press is terrific. I drop a bullet nose first into my Star and simply set a flared check on the base and run them through. I have never enjoyed putting gas checks on bullets before. Tapping a tight fitting check onto a bullet before sizing often caused my "trigger finger" lock up, sometimes even my whole hand would spasm after a couple of hundred repetitions. No more!

Thank you notorious machinist.

 

[Ian]

And I enjoyed making it, good Sir.

The flat is the very first thing I ever tried milling with my mini-lathe attachment not counting a scrap of aluminum. The object was to make a very hard, polished tool tip so the checks don't stick, require a lever to pry them off, or make your thumbnail sore. I'm a firm believer in better living being achieved through proper metallurgy. I case-hardened an 1144 push-through die and you wouldn't believe how delightful it is to use it now.

 

[L Ross]

And I enjoyed making it, good Sir.

The flat is the very first thing I ever tried milling with my mini-lathe attachment not counting a scrap of aluminum. The object was to make a very hard, polished tool tip so the checks don't stick, require a lever to pry them off, or make your thumbnail sore. I'm a firm believer in better living being achieved through proper metallurgy. I case-hardened an 1144 push-through die and you wouldn't believe how delightful it is to use it now.

The only thing I ever case hardened was a couple of frizzens with Case-Nit. In both instances, it worked. How did you case harden a push through die?

 

[Brad]

Ian, in making my flare tools I found the angle was critical. Too shallow and the checks stuck. Too much and the flare was excessive..

 

[Ian]

I made a "pipe bomb" out of black iron pipe with one tight and one loose cap. Crushed up and screened Kingsford briquets provided the carbon a and a reducing atmosphere. The die was packed being careful to fill the hole the middle with the briquette granules, then placed in my pottery kiln on 1375⁰F (ish, mechanical thermostat). When I could see the bomb turn dull red through the cone rod hole I set the temperature to hold for a couple of hours and then withdrew it, twisted off the cap, and dumped the contents into a bucket of cool water. No case colors this way, just a light grey glass-hard surface.

 

[Ian]

Ian, in making my flare tools I found the angle was critical. Too shallow and the checks stuck. Too much and the flare was excessive..

What angle per side did you use?

 

[Brad]

I don’t recall the exact angle but it was in the 10-15° per side I believe.

My highly scientific method was to turn the taper, polish it then tap a check on firmly. I wanted the check to either fall off or come off easily with out even needing a fingernail to pull it off.

Different size checks needed different angles. Going up or down in size from 30 cal needed a flatter angle I think?

Been a few years since I made one. Need to see if Bob can measure the angle on a few, he has a very complete set in a wide variety of calibers.