What is better made, or more useable, now than in the years past?

[Pistolero]

Never will own a turbo gas car. And I do entirely understand exactly how they work and how
the engine systems on a modern engine work. I have worked on cars since the 60s and
studied internal engine design in engineering school, so practical and theoretical are well
in my grasp. And rebuild several aircraft engines, too, and operated them a lot of hours.
It is a non-negotiable item. NO turbos on any gasoline ordinary street cars I own. Makes
zero sense compared to upping the displacement by 25% and dumping all the plumbing
nightmares. On a gasoline, family sedan, daily driver.

Maybe an old TurboPorsche if I win the lottery. And I drove one of those once and the systems
were in bad tune and instead of the dream drive I thought it would be, it was a mess. Properly
set up, may be pretty fun as a toy race car, according to reports . NOT a daily driver.

And you mention the 4Runner. I have been wondering whether I want to go to a newer model
of that car, too. Like maybe a 2016 or 17, but not sure. Any issues with them that are worse than
my old 2006?

Bill

 

[Bret4207]

I'd hang onto the 06 4R Bill. Even better were the older ones IMO, but I suffer from "crabby old man syndrome", so take that with a grain of salt.

I thought long and hard about a diesel when I was looking for a 3/4 or 1 ton 4wd crew cab. I just couldn't justify the costs. It's not just the inital higher price, it's the upkeep costs and the fuel. There's 75 cents a gallon tax in NYS last I checked. Only 62 for gas. It takes a lot of miles to make up all the added costs, and they better be paying miles. If I was hauling cattle or lumber or hay 60-150 miles every day it would be a no brainer. But I can't see Joe Sixpack actually realizing any big savings at current prices. Back when diesel was half or less the cost of gas, yeah, but not now.

Heavy trucks (dump trucks, flatbeds), over the road tractors, yes, diesel is the only way to go. Even at that, there are still a few old guys running gas dumps up here making a few bucks and not losing their shirts.

 

[Ian]

I know right where you were, Ric, recognized the pulloff across from the sign and the mountain in the background. Usually that spot is full of HD motorcycles when you can see that much grass through the snow. The aluminum rub mark comment cracked me up, that's about right especially with eastbound oncoming traffic hugging the yellow line....where there is one.

 

[Pistolero]

Agree, totally, Bret. Commercial service, lots of miles, turbodiesel makes real economic sense. For most
ordinary folks without just buckets to spend "because I want it", a lot harder to justify economically. The higher
fuel cost does hurt diesels, too. But, there is more energy in a gallon of diesel fuel, about 18% more than
gasoline by gallon, so if you are buying BTUs....the higher price makes some sense. But mostly it is politicians
taxing businesses more since most diesel is used by commercial trucks, (I think).

I'm not sure that the differences in complexity on a 2016 4Runner are very much beyond a 2006 4 Runner. When
the back door latch has to talk to the main car computer to work (not kidding, this is real) ....you are way out into
crazy computer games, it would seem to be hard to go a lot farther - but maybe I am wrong.

Bill

 

[Ian]

2006 YM are dinosaurs in comparison. Now you have the Nanny Gov you love so much requiring backup cameras, collision avoidance systems, plus the automotive market being as always a bell-and-whistle competition you have them all tripping over themselves to pack as much comm support for your phone, entertainment, and navigation systems (MS Windows on-board systems, built in hot-spots, you name it) and all sorts of other "conveniences" into them as possible. It would take 200 miles of 24-gauge ribbon cable to handle it all so the network busses are multiplexed. IDK about Toyotas, but the 2017 Navigator has nearly one hundred separate on-board computer modules.

 

[Pistolero]

Yikes. Maybe my comparatively stone aged 2006 needs to be kept longer than I thought.
I'll be checking out newer models, but not in any hurry.

Bill

 

[popper]

Mesquito pass is worse, 13k, dusty trail, motors don't run there. Big problem with newer auto is you can't get a small one without turbo! Well you could but don't try to get on the freeway with one. New Edge has a tubo 6 or puny 4 banger. Rav4 is so underpowered with auto they don't get you anywhere. New 4 runners are butt ugly. Take up inside space with 'cool' wide doors. Ugh. IIRC I changed the plugs & tires on the 2006 @ 100k.

 

[462]

If I ever have to replace the '95 F-150 might just look for a late '60s early '70s Ford or Chevy/GMC that has been semi-hot rodded. Besides not having any kind of computer, nor electric this-and-that, it might even cost less!

 

[Pistolero]

100K happened a good bit ago with my 4Runner.

 

[Jeff H]

My newest car is a 2001.

It's got power door locks, power windows.

I miss the old "base model" you could still get 30 years ago - "standard" transmission, no radio, crank windows, vinyl seats and floor covering,..... No such thing these days. You pay for all the fancy stuff whether you want or need it.

 

[Ian]

It's more expensive to produce "base model" vehicles due to lack of demand and relatively low production numbers. If a person wants a base model price these days, they typically buy a well-equipped base model brand, Such as Kia, rather than a stripped-down Malibu.

 

[RicinYakima]

It's more expensive to produce "base model" vehicles due to lack of demand and relatively low production numbers. If a person wants a base model price these days, they typically buy a well-equipped base model brand, Such as Kia, rather than a stripped-down Malibu.

My wife's 1999 Ford Contour Sport V32 died last summer. Built from German Ford drivetrain and assembled in Canada. It was a great car but too much HP for the tranny after a couple of hundred thousand. Anyway, when she went looking for a car, she bought a basic Jeep Cherokee with no options. She wanted no electronic "stuff", no back up screens, nothing but a car to drive in the snow. It was about 60% of a top of the line model. She loves it. FWIW

 

[Pistolero]

Looking at 2015-2017 4Runner ads online. The base SR5s are relatively rare compared to the
overblown TRDs and luxo Limited models. Our current one is an SR5, the newer ones have the same
engine and trans (it appears). A good bit uglier, too. Looking like it will take $30K to get a used one
with 25,000 miles or so on it. Not cheap, even used.

Bill

 

[Bret4207]

Bill, friends have a late model 4 Runner too, maybe 4-5 years old? They had all sorts of problems with the back door latch too! Like I said, the 90's were fine by me for Toys!

 

[Jeff H]

I get it on the base models, Ian. I just don't understand how so many people can all actually afford all the amenities. Funny how in firearms we have an option to go with a cheap, no-frills, black-plastic-stocked and completely functional "economy model" which often keeps up with and even out-performs the high-dollar stuff. I'm not too proud to drive an ugly car that conveys a sense of poverty instead of falsely proclaiming affluence - as long as it works and doesn't cost more than my house.

I had an '85 Isuzu Trooper in the late eighties. Inside was all painted steel and plastic or vinyl. The interior was as classy as the inside of a painted steel garden shed and as roomy. Manual transmission and transfer case, boxy, but cheap and functional - very adept off-road and got good mileage. It was not very fast but had plenty of torque for what I needed. I needed another car, so I decided to get a new 89 Trooper because I liked the 85 so much. In those few years, they ditched the inline 1.9L four and went to a V6, couldn't find manual anything and they were so posh inside that you felt like you should take your shoes off before getting into it. Oh, and they cost three times what I had paid for the 85. They didn't even offer a basic version by that time.

 

[Ian]

I think for most people it's just a monthly payment, what's a few bucks more? Foreign concept for some of us, I know. I had one car payment one time a long time ago, for a couple of months (a collector tracked me down and bought my brand-new "one of the last ten" '96 Impala SS, paid off my note, and put me in a used Caprice), since then I buy used outright and keep them going as long as practicable.

Things that are better now: Found out last night that Briggs & Stratton has come a long way since the 80s. Now they have overhead valves, hardened seat inserts, real valve stem seals, steel cylinder sleeves, and the machine and casting work is impeccable. Good times.

 

[462]

Jeff H,

Affording upscale and full-blown appointed new cars is easy -- lease it. Put a few hundred bucks down, make monthly payments of the same few hundred bucks and even the laziest and self-imporant student loan and credit card debt burdened millenial can drive a new Mercedes Benz roadster. They will never be home owners, but, hey, they will always be driving the latest and fanciest of cars.

Michael

 

[Jeff H]

I think for most people it's just a monthly payment, what's a few bucks more? Foreign concept for some of us, I know................

I'm not an idiot (keep telling myself anyway), and I've worked for every bit of education I've gotten - eventually figure out anything I put my mind to, but THAT still eludes me. Anything I've ever taken a loan for was purchased with the idea of eventually (as quickly as possible) actually owning it. I've always been debt-averse. I've never understood that psychology.

........................OK, 462 just pitched in as I was rendering an overly philosophical effect - thinking too hard.

Yeah, I get it. And so many people just don't worry about debt like they don't worry about anything else that's "not their fault," so someone will come along and bail them out.

Honestly, I just don't like being dependent upon someone (anyone) else for anything.

 

[Pistolero]

Ian, good to hear that B&S has moved into the 1990s. I rebuilt a bunch of the lawn mower
types over the years as a teen, brother had a minibike, and we scrounged engines to keep it
running. Never was impressed. Then I ran across a Tecumseh mower engine. Wow, cast iron
cyl liner, steel insert for valve seats, internal real governor instead of a nylon flap in the cooling
air flow pretending to be a governor, very badly, until clogged by grass clippings and never
working again. And a pumped oil system. I only ran Tecumseh lawn mowers after that, and
actually only used up two of them, one of which still runs for trim work on rough and tight areas.
Bought a new Honda a few years ago, a really fine machine, but about 4 times what I paid for the
last cheapo with a Tecumseh engine years ago.

Jeff - I worked to get out of debt as quickly as I could. Bought my first new car at age 35.
Buy some new, some used nowdays, but pay cash on all for many years. when I did go to loans,
it would be a 4 year loan, and paid off in two.

Bill

 

[Rick]

Things that are better now: Found out last night that Briggs & Stratton has come a long way since the 80s. Now they have overhead valves, hardened seat inserts, real valve stem seals, steel cylinder sleeves, and the machine and casting work is impeccable. Good times.

Well maybe. Maybe not. If only they would start. My Briggs on my log splitter is 2-3 years old, never has and still doesn't start worth a hoot without starting ether. Runs fine once running. My Briggs on my walk behind mower at 5 years old developed a right nice rod knock last summer. Well, maybe not so nice but hey it starts. Called Briggs last summer to see about a replacement motor. They no longer make a model for Snapper Mowers. Still no fan of Briggs.