Lee 120 gr. 9mm Luger bullet

[Bazoo]

My first thought of why the sights would be regulated 3" high at 25 yards was point blank hold out to 100+ yards, just like sighting in a hunting rifle. Course, when I've practiced on my 2/3 IPSC, using a gun sighted for point of aim at 25 yards I've just held normal point of aim and my shots fell lower, but still hit just fine, which is better overall.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm pretty sure the sights are not regulated 3" HIGH at 25 yards. I think the sights are regulated for a 6 O' Clock HOLD on the bullseye at 25 yards. A NRA B8 Bullseye target has a 9 ring that is 5.54″ in diameter, a 10 ring that is 3.36″ across and the X ring is 1.695″ in diameter. So, the total black center of the target is LESS than 6” in diameter. A 6 O’clock hold would put those rounds in the bullseye – assuming the shooter had the required skill. Just being able to discern the edges of that black center aiming point at 25 yards (75 feet) is pushing the limits of what most people can visually define at that distance AND still be able to get a sight picture.

We may be splitting hairs on semantics here.

At 25 yards the bullseye on a standard target isn’t exactly big compared to the visual references of the sights. Even in my younger days with perfect vision, the difference between a 6 O’clock hold and a center bullseye hold was well beyond what I could reliably deliver in terms of accuracy. And it was easier to discern the lower edge of the bullseye than to try and find the center of the black bullseye at that range. (sort of like using the lower limb of the sun when using a sextant because the center of the sun is impossible to accurately define)

In any event, I think those dimensions and the ballistics of a 158-grain bullet in 38 Special, had a lot to do with how fixed sights on a S&W K-frame chambered in 38 Special are regulated

 

[CZ93X62]

Yessir! Try just try to tear your eyes off the guy with the knife, gun, club, whatever and think front sight, front sight. Not sure how much practice that'd take. Yup, qualifying, practice shooting, whatever seems easy. When the poop hits the fan, i dunno.

I interviewed a robbery victim at a C-store who minutes previously had a handgun pointed at his head. He was a good young man, a college student of African extraction that grew up in a county area east of Palm Springs--which was pretty crime-ridden and shag-nasty. As such he could lapse into The Language Of The Streets when under stress, though he was usually quite articulate and well-spoken.

Being the first on scene after our victim called Dispatch and advised of the robbery and the bad guy's departure, I'm starting to debrief the victim for a crime info broadcast--what the dude(s) looked like, their ride, their war toy(s), yadda yadda. When I asked him what the guy looked like, he said--

"Look like? LOOK LIKE?! Mr. Paine, he looked like a m-----f------ HOWITZER IN REEBOKS!"

Fixed sights in revolvers and autopistols shoot where they shoot in the hands of the user. They have shot reasonably close to point of aim for me with my issued ammo when I was working. As a self-defender your focus should be on the actions of your unknown animated quantity that poses the risk or threat--esp. the hands. Fine differences between point-of-aim and point-of-impact need to be resolved before carrying the war toy into harm's way, and are far down the list of real concerns if some cretin chooses to exchange finality with you.

 

[Tomme boy]

I got to shoot a buddies new SA Ronin 9mm 1911 this weekend. He loaded up a bunch of these 120gr TC bullets I cast and coated for him. That gun is extremally accurate with this bullet. I was hitting pop cans out to 30yds almost every other shot. I am usually pretty good out to 20yds but past that my eyes are not too good. But I was shooting very well this week end.

I am now looking at getting a 9mm 1911.

 

[fiver]

i'm a fan of the 9mm 1911's.
that and the CZ-75.

 

[CZ93X62]

i'm a fan of the 9mm 1911's.
that and the CZ-75.

Yessir--my CZ-75B in 40 S&W is the best pistol i have owned in this caliber--and I have several. The Lee TC autopistol designs just plain darn WORK, in all three calibers.

 

[L Ross]

i'm a fan of the 9mm 1911's.
that and the CZ-75.

Then you gotta like Hi-Powers?

 

[Mainiac]

I got to shoot a buddies new SA Ronin 9mm 1911 this weekend. He loaded up a bunch of these 120gr TC bullets I cast and coated for him. That gun is extremally accurate with this bullet. I was hitting pop cans out to 30yds almost every other shot. I am usually pretty good out to 20yds but past that my eyes are not too good. But I was shooting very well this week end.

I am now looking at getting a 9mm 1911.

Never owned a 9mm,,and then i bought a sig 210..
Wow,,,that thing makes me look like good!
Mp275 and 2.5gr titegroup,,chews a hole in the paper.

 

[seagiant1]

The 9mm FMJ will kill, no doubt about that, it's just how long it takes fr the BG to bleed out. I'm gonna watch this thread and see what opinions crop up. I'm kinda in like with the your Lee 359-125FP

Hi,
The way I heard it is, the Solid bullet is more lethal than a HP at the end of the day...

Even though the Perp may be put down faster by a HP than a Solid.

Meaning, I guess, better to be shot by a HP than a Solid, if you are going to be shot, as there seems to be a higher survival rate???

Just something I read?

 

[Bret4207]

That goes back to "bleed out" and bullet diameter/power. Yeah, a rn solid, cast or jacketed is likely to penetrate more and leave 2 holes. A HP/SP, if they work at all, makes a shallower wound. A hit from a 22LR solid out of a pistol is unlikely to do more damage than a HP 22LR, but it may penetrate much deeper and hit something soft and squishy that carries lots of blood. Hit someone with a 45 FN vs 45 RN and the same theory applies, but there's more energy involved. It's an old, old discussion with lots of opinion, hyperbole, salesmanship and just plain BS involved. All I know is I don't want to shoot anybody, but if I have to, it would be nice if they'd fall down and start crying after one shot!

 

[Thumbcocker]

I'm pretty sure the sights are not regulated 3" HIGH at 25 yards. I think the sights are regulated for a 6 O' Clock HOLD on the bullseye at 25 yards. A NRA B8 Bullseye target has a 9 ring that is 5.54″ in diameter, a 10 ring that is 3.36″ across and the X ring is 1.695″ in diameter. So, the total black center of the target is LESS than 6” in diameter. A 6 O’clock hold would put those rounds in the bullseye – assuming the shooter had the required skill. Just being able to discern the edges of that black center aiming point at 25 yards (75 feet) is pushing the limits of what most people can visually define at that distance AND still be able to get a sight picture.

We may be splitting hairs on semantics here.

At 25 yards the bullseye on a standard target isn’t exactly big compared to the visual references of the sights. Even in my younger days with perfect vision, the difference between a 6 O’clock hold and a center bullseye hold was well beyond what I could reliably deliver in terms of accuracy. And it was easier to discern the lower edge of the bullseye than to try and find the center of the black bullseye at that range. (sort of like using the lower limb of the sun when using a sextant because the center of the sun is impossible to accurately define)

In any event, I think those dimensions and the ballistics of a 158-grain bullet in 38 Special, had a lot to do with how fixed sights on a S&W K-frame chambered in 38 Special are regulated

Almost all of my shooting with handguns is hunting or hitting things. I was never trained other than reading Keith, Skeeter, and Ross Seyfried. I did the required training for the ccw and did the retesting. For me hitting things, especially at distance, involves covering the thing to be hit with the front sight. Small targets at long distance are hit by holding up part of the front sight. I guess my lack of formal bullseye shooting is to blame. For giggles I measured the distance from the bottom of the 9 ring to the center of the x ring on a 25 yard pistol target and got 2 7/8" so I guess, like any handgun shooter worth their salt, I exaggerated a little with the 3" comment.

I am thankful for adjustable sights.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Almost all of my shooting with handguns is hunting or hitting things. I was never trained other than reading Keith, Skeeter, and Ross Seyfried. I did the required training for the ccw and did the retesting. For me hitting things, especially at distance, involves covering the thing to be hit with the front sight. Small targets at long distance are hit by holding up part of the front sight. I guess my lack of formal bullseye shooting is to blame. For giggles I measured the distance from the bottom of the 9 ring to the center of the x ring on a 25 yard pistol target and got 2 7/8" so I guess, like any handgun shooter worth their salt, I exaggerated a little with the 3" comment.

I am thankful for adjustable sights.

 

[fiver]

i'd love a Hi-Power, but i've never had a chance to buy one.
heck i'd like a smith 59 too, and a Sig 220... LOL

 

[Petrol & Powder]

i'd love a Hi-Power, but i've never had a chance to buy one.
heck i'd like a smith 59 too, and a Sig 220... LOL

I'm with you fiver.

IMO.....The Hi-Power has one of the best grips on a double stack frame and it was introduced in 1935!

I don't currently have one, but I've owned a couple of Hi-Power's. They have some quirks (like a trigger linkage that changes direction about 4 times) but the guns are solidly reliable and good shooters.

The grip of the CZ-75 shares the excellent form of the Hi-Power.
Again, in my opinion,..... the CZ-75 really takes the basic layout of the Hi-Power and improves upon it in multiple ways.
The CZ has a DA/SA action, better safety in terms of ergonomics and function, full length internal slide rails, omits the magazine safety and is a very well-made gun. If you don't mind the size and weight - the CZ-75 is a super good 9mm pistol. All steel, well made, very durable design.

The SIG P220 [AKA P75] was a groundbreaking pistol in many ways. As the P75 (Swiss military trim) it is a 9mm pistol but most in the U.S. are chambered in 45 ACP. That design incorporated a LOT of innovation.
Folded steel slide with a separate breach block. Aluminum frame with full length internal rails. A de-cocking lever with DA/SA action. And the forerunner of the barrel to slide locking system that utilizes the squared off ejection port to lock the barrel to the slide (as opposed to internal locking lugs cut inside the slide like on a 1911 or Hi-Power). This system is still a Browning style tilting barrel, short recoil locking system, but the locking interface is far simpler than the original Browning design. In fact, it is so simple that almost every modern version of the Browing tilting barrel system now uses that squared off ejection port to lock the barrel to the slide.

There are many older pistols chambered in 9mm Luger that are very good pistols.

 

[Tomme boy]

I have a Hi Power. While it is a nice gun, it is also the worst shooting gun I have. She shakes and rattles. But is 100% reliable.

 

[CZ93X62]

My Hi-Power is a 'HP by proxy'--the CZ-75 carried cocked and locked. I would like one of the new Springfield HPs, but Kalifornistan won't approve them after years of approving the Browning version. THIS PLACE--JEEZ!

 

[Thumbcocker]

High power and CZ75 are good service accurate pistols, usually with oversize bores. A friend had a 59. It was a turd. Couldn't hit a barn from inside with it despite lots of effort and load development.

 

[Bret4207]

SWMBO has a CZ clone, an EAA Witness, in 40. Wonderful feeling gun in the hand, dead reliable so far and steel framed so the recoil doesn't bother her. I think while the feel is Hi-Power-ish there's a lot more meat there. I really like the feel of the Hi-Power/CZ/Witness!

 

[CZ93X62]

Yes--what Bret said.

 

[obssd1958]

I have the Witness version - with several different iterations possible, due to swappable mags and slide/barrel combos.
It started out as a fullsize steel framed 10mm. I bought a .40 S&W barrel, that only requires a quick barrel swap from 10mm, but uses the same slide and magazine. Then I had to have the .38 Super conversion, and added a 9mm Luger barrel for shooting that cartridge. And then I bought a compact version in .45 ACP. Still a steel frame, but shorter barrel and grip frame.
Of course, I eventually had to have the .22 LR conversion to round out my options.
I really like the system!