Advice for newbie

[glassparman]

Ok, been around here for a while. I've done some casting but not much, mostly soft lead for my black powder 45-70 loads.

I'm ready to get serious about casting.

Just bought a Lee 358-158-RF mold. I have a standard Lee 10lb pot and a bunch of lead ingots. Most of the ingots I have, were melted down from WW or old, junky cast handgun bullets of unknown composition. I also have linotype and pewter.

So my question is, for a full 10lb pot, how much Linotype and/or pewter should I put in by weight?

These will be used on .357 and .38 Special.

Thanks in advance for advice!

Mike

 

[Rick]

Save the lino, shouldn't need it at all. You could add about 1% Sn by weight, can help with fill-out. If it were me I would load up some of the WW alloy you have and get to testing. You may find yourself a happy camper. I have never used lino, never needed it and I shoot ww in about everything. My avatar pic is ww+ 2% Sn in a 140 gr 6.5mm SAECO.

 

[Snakeoil]

Years ago, when I bought commercial bullets in quantities of 5000 at a time, the guy I bought from used pure WWs for all his bullets. I shot the same alloy in lighter .45LC loads for CAS, very hot .45ACP and .357 for bowling pins and IPSC and light loads in .38 and .45ACP for Bullseye. Never had a complaint. Oh, and they were all bevel base as well since I used a Dillion Square Deal progressive loader.

 

[JonB]

your old, junky cast handgun bullets of unknown composition are likely a hard alloy, near 92-6-2. If you've kept that separate, you could blend that with some pure lead if you come across some in the future.
I'd cast with the WW alloy. But if you've already blended the WW with the old pistol scrap, then just cast with that. You'll be fine.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Not ta confuse ya, But if ya start Power Coating ya can forget about 75/80% of the "hardness requirements" and enjoy loading and shooting instead of worrying about leading & Fouling while trying to enjoy loading and shooting...

CW

 

[Rick]

Not ta confuse ya, But if ya start Power Coating ya can forget about 75/80% of the "hardness requirements" and enjoy loading and shooting instead of worrying about leading & Fouling while trying to enjoy loading and shooting...

CW

Not to confuse you CW but with conventional lube you can forget about 90% or more of so called "hardness requirements" with 90% or more of shooting. While powder coating obviously works in many situations it is not a cure all and certainly not mandatory. It is a method some prefer to use.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Challenge set forth Rick???

Being as ALL, EVERY SINGLE ONE of the hardness requirements/ Suggestions/ reason folks so many fret and pose questions like this stem directly from the days when lubrication was ONLY WAY a cast bullet was used...
So, your comment is, untruthful at best.

I haven't seen a single person here ever claim that Powder coating was a cure all and absolutely not ever mandatory.

This attitube of absolute, one way or the other frankly serves no one.

Powder coating is but another tool to be used @ the discretion of the user.

Why, its SO RESISTED as if pure evil, is beyond me. Frankly its a asset to the world of bullet casting, FAR FAR FAR more then any kind of negative. There is positives for conventional lube as there is same for Powder Coating.

Also, Im no newbie, I started Bullet Casting in Mid '80's. Less then some longer then many.
I like Powder coating. So Folks who cut there teeth and spent decades with Conventional lube can change!


CW

 

[Rick]

Never said there was anything evil about it. Never said anything negative about it. Never said anything about your casting or how long you've been doing it. Never said a word about absolute one way or the other.

You read a lot into my post that simply isn't there. Extremely defensive, I think. Why?

Now here is something I did say . . .

Powder coating is but another tool to be used @ the discretion of the user.

CW

It is a method some prefer to use.

 

[RBHarter]

There is a smiley deal in there .

I learned paper patch to avoid checks . I broke down and put checks on 2 calibers ........after I read 2600 posts on HyTek I decided that the difficulties encountered and oven temp hassles weren't worth the effort. It did however make lube sizers and dies a lot cheaper and a lot more available . 2 very important details for me .

 

[Rick H]

Melt most any vaguely plumbous alloy in a 158 RF and you can get it to shoot well in most any 38 Special. The same applies to the 357Mag. if you keep your foot off the gas. Cast some of what you have and shoot them.

We tend to overcomplicate things. The finer points will come with time and experience. 38's are easy.....you might have to learn how to clean out some leading but it is all part of the learning curve. Enjoy the journey.

Sometimes we spend way too much time and energy arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

 

[RicinYakima]

You have to have a clearly defined mission.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

If not powder coating, and casting for 38 Special - about 10 BHn is about as hard as the bullets need to be and you can easily get by with a hardness of 9 BHn.
Fit is king, the alloy is second. The correct lube and a good fit is the goal with 38 Special.
The cylinder throat will be the last sizing die the bullet passes through before it reaches the forcing cone, so that's your limiting factor on bullet size. The lube should be fairly soft at 38 Special velocities and I find NRA 50/50 works well over a large range of applications.
38 Special is downright easy and cast bullet friendly.

357 mag is also cast bullet friendly but at some of the upper velocities, you may need to pay a bit of attention to the alloy. You still don't need super hard alloy if everything is right.

Even with 357 Magnum you don't need a gas check if you have the right size, the right alloy, and you don't get crazy with the velocity.
I have pushed 160 grain SWC bullets with NRA 50/50 lube down the barrel of a 357 magnum without leading the barrel.

I HATE a gas check on a revolver bullet.

There are hardness calculators available on-line and they take all the guess work out of the equation.

 

[Bret4207]

#1- Forget the whole Bhn thing for now, just don't worry about it at all. FIT IS KING!!! I'd take everything but the lino/pewter and melt if down into one big batch. Then I'd start casting and work at that until I was getting decent bullets, and with a new mould that can take a little bit. And then, when you get acceptable bullets, I'd load them at 38 levels in both cartridges and work up. See where it takes you. 99% chance that up to near mag levels you will be fine as you are IF the bullet fits the gun/guns. I don't know if that design uses a GC or not, but that makes higher energy loadings exponentially easier.

#2- Forget the whole Bhn thing and have fun.

#3- FIT IS KING!!! Remember that.

 

[Bret4207]

Not ta confuse ya, But if ya start Power Coating ya can forget about 75/80% of the "hardness requirements" and enjoy loading and shooting instead of worrying about leading & Fouling while trying to enjoy loading and shooting...

CW

I gotta side with Rick on this one guy.

 

[Snakeoil]

I think it is safe to say that any cast bullet, properly sized, will shoot better than most pistol shooters are capable of shooting. I am not including long range shooters and rifle caliber pistols in that broad statement.

 

[glassparman]

Well, last summer when I had covid and was stuck at home, I separated up all the scrap lead and made ingots and kept it separate and labeled so I know which box has WW and which has old bullets.

A couple years ago, someone gave me two 5 gallon buckets completely full of bullets. All mixed in was jacketed and cast. Most of the cast was .452 WC and they looked like bunk so I melted them up.

I have some of those hardness pencils that I can draw on some to get a basic idea but I agree, just cast and see where I will go.

This whole project is for my new-to-me Ruger Police Service Six.

I'm extremely excited, get to pick it up Monday. I've wanted DA .357 for a long time. I just had to be picky because I wanted something old school looking, not nickel or looking like something the terminator would carry.

I'll cast a batch from WW and another batch from the old melted down 45's and see where we go.

Thanks for all the advice!

I'll post some cast pics when I get some done.

Mike

 

[Glaciers]

The Service Six if a good one. You’ll like it.
4 inch I assume?

 

[fiver]

i think you got a good plan there.

casting good bullets is 80% of the battle.
sizing them or coating them properly helps some.
getting them in the case is another part of the equation.

doesn't do you any good to do the other 2 steps and then just mash them down in there crooked or use the case to make them under size.
you'll quickly complain your bullets simply ain't hard enough when the actual problem is the case squish, shaving, or that stupid lee die everyone thinks is so great.

anyway.
my take on the coating thing is it takes too long.
yep too much time.
i can lube size 50 pistol bullets a minute.
ain't nobody gonna say they can coat and cook that many that fast.
i can't even load them that fast on the 650 with a case feeder.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Never said there was anything evil about it. Never said anything negative about it. Never said anything about your casting or how long you've been doing it. Never said a word about absolute one way or the other.

You read a lot into my post that simply isn't there. Extremely defensive, I think. Why?

Now here is something I did say . . .

Not be belabor, & of coarse in good favor.
I made a general statement questioning opinion of some & said "why powder coating is considered as something evil is beyond me" not that you specifically said that.

I mention my time & experience as merely preemptive, as I have had conversation many tines & common argument is PC is often & only embraced by new casters lacking experience with traditional lube protocol & procedure.

No you didnt say there was anything wrong with PC as I said nothing is wrong with Traditional lube.

Defensive, I guess a bit but yours was direct reply actually, quoting mine. So I guess I could ask same. I was more responding to mere stubbornness ilI see against something new or to try something new. ( IE PC) Maybe we BOTH did a lil reading "IN", huh?

But, I did not, read into the vailed retort, to my suggesting PC. Here is a couple points.

PC can all but eliminate need of a GC in a hand gun.

PC can all but eliminate need for any particular alloy or hardness in a hand gun.

PC negates need of lube of any kind. Eliminating most smoke associated to bullet lubes.

100% Fit is king.

I dont feel PC is a "cure all" or for certain "mandatory" either.

 

[358156 hp]

Not to confuse you CW but with conventional lube you can forget about 90% or more of so called "hardness requirements" with 90% or more of shooting. While powder coating obviously works in many situations it is not a cure all and certainly not mandatory. It is a method some prefer to use.

I powder coat because I often shoot in indoor ranges, and lots of smoke will be distracting for myself and others. If I had a regular outdoor shooting spot I'd probably be working on Ians soap based lube. Felix' lube can really lay out some smoke indoors.