Advice for newbie

[richhodg66]

Melt most any vaguely plumbous alloy in a 158 RF and you can get it to shoot well in most any 38 Special. The same applies to the 357Mag. if you keep your foot off the gas. Cast some of what you have and shoot them.

We tend to overcomplicate things. The finer points will come with time and experience. 38's are easy.....you might have to learn how to clean out some leading but it is all part of the learning curve. Enjoy the journey.

Sometimes we spend way too much time and energy arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

This should be printed as gospel. Reloaders in general, and bullet casters in particular, tend to be the worst Over thinkers out there. Wheel weights and commercial cast bullets is plenty good enough for the uses you have listed if sized and lubed correctly. Cast and have fun.

 

[Ian]

I powder coat because of Texas heat, suppressors which are difficult or impossible to clean, and the easy accuracy I get for game loads with appropriately malleable alloy at jacketed velocity.

I did just fine for decades with grease lubes and straight wheelweights.

The .35 caliber handguns are easy and not picky. Rugers are notorious for having severe thread choke on account of cost-saving manufacturing processes and this can cause you more trouble than alloy or "lube" choice ever will.

Y'all can keep pissing in each other's cereal if you want, but I'm gonna side with Fiver because he pointed out the other problems you'll need to work out long before alloy choice becomes a problem.

By the way, I have a .44 Magnum with an UltraDot on top that will run plain-based SWCs cast of 16:1 lead/tin close to 1400 fps and keep them inside a Copenhagen lid at 100 yards. The "secret" is proper loading tools, proper fit, good brass, near-perfect castings, and a bullet lube that is up to the task (I use Felix Lube for that one).

 

[Rick]

Y'all can keep pissing in each other's cereal if you want,

Nope, this will not turn into a pissin match.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

.........This whole project is for my new-to-me Ruger Police Service Six..........

One of the very best DA revolvers ever made. You will be pleased with it.
The strength of a L-frame S&W in a package the size of a K-frame S&W.

Ruger made about 1.5 million DA six series revolvers (Service-Six, Security-Six and Speed-Six models) from 1972 to 1988.
Those guns are exceptionally strong for their size and are amazingly durable.

You'll need to check the throats on the cylinder but I suspect you'll find they are pretty close to .357"
I previously sized bullets to .358" for my S&W and Ruger DA revolvers but found that all of mine were closer to .357" and shot slightly better when I sized bullets to .357". Every gun is different and you'll have to find what yours likes but I wouldn't be surprised if the throats were .357".

Safariland makes a dedicated speedloader for the Ruger DA Six's and you can still get those new.

Enjoy your "new to you" revolver, it's a good one!

Here an old thread:

The Ruger DA Six Series

Wow, where to start? The Ruger DA Six series revolvers (Security-Six, Service-Six & Speed-Six) hold a special place in the world of DA revolvers. They were game changers in terms of manufacturing methods, design, and value. I think every Ruger fan felt a twinge of sadness when they were...

www.artfulbullet.com

 

[fiver]

it really shouldn't.

i do use powder coat.
i just don't need to use it for everything.

 

[Bret4207]

Not be belabor, & of coarse in good favor.
I made a general statement questioning opinion of some & said "why powder coating is considered as something evil is beyond me" not that you specifically said that.

I mention my time & experience as merely preemptive, as I have had conversation many tines & common argument is PC is often & only embraced by new casters lacking experience with traditional lube protocol & procedure.

No you didnt say there was anything wrong with PC as I said nothing is wrong with Traditional lube.

Defensive, I guess a bit but yours was direct reply actually, quoting mine. So I guess I could ask same. I was more responding to mere stubbornness ilI see against something new or to try something new. ( IE PC) Maybe we BOTH did a lil reading "IN", huh?

But, I did not, read into the vailed retort, to my suggesting PC. Here is a couple points.

PC can all but eliminate need of a GC in a hand gun.

PC can all but eliminate need for any particular alloy or hardness in a hand gun.

PC negates need of lube of any kind. Eliminating most smoke associated to bullet lubes.

100% Fit is king.

I dont feel PC is a "cure all" or for certain "mandatory" either.

How often do you actually "need" a GC in a handgun, unless you are running at mag levels? How often have you had to go to a specific alloy, presumably a "HARDCAST" alloy in a handgun? How often in cases where either is necessary have you tried both PC and lube? I have no doubt PC is great, wonderful and that I should play with it. I also think there is way, way too much emphasis put on Bhn and PC being a substitute for it when chances are Bhn isn't the problem in the first place. PC always adds diameter, does it not? Back to fit.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Morning Bret,

Since going PC on bullets, BHN for me is now 100% about bullet preformance on game. If target its no longer much of a thought.

Yes, PC can add allot or a little depending upon your process or application. But its applied before sizing so largely moot.

GC for me, my use and remember most all I do surrounds hunting use. I dont hot rod everything. But I need a 357 to do what a 357 can do. Same in 41 or 44... So I needed a GC for hunting loads I loaded before PC.

I also like the looks of some colors and the instant ID of loaded utilizing them.

Looking at Bullseye, I just liked the cleaner less smoky aspect if PC. 100% there it was not as advantageous.

Another aspect mentioned precious is encapsulation of the lead. It is a jacket after all and offers same protections a plated bullet does.

No NOT A PISSING MATCH! Just two guys offering there perspectives on a given topic.

 

[RBHarter]

Elmer Kieth worked out what eventually became the 44 mag with plain base bullets grease and 16-1 lead-tin . I'll give that the QC in his guns was probably better . As an alloy standard that's bubblegum next to commercial cast .

Fit is probably the single most important part of keeping lead from sticking to stuff .

Start with start loads of Special cartridges in Mag cases and work all the way up making notes . Start with the fast powders work to the slow powders . Push the H110/296 to the back of the shelf , you'll be happier for it .

 

[Dimner]

I 95% cast for rifle only. I have a simple rule, if it has a gas check, I powder coat. If it doesn't, I BLL tumble lube.

My other 5% is a 32acp surplus magazine fed pea shooter. I PC for that because it's magazine fed, and because it worked the first time I tried it.

 

[Glaciers]

Well sounds like different methods of getting cast bullets prepared for loading. I like PC a lot. I also use BLL, and Ben’s Red. I’ve got other hard stick lubes and soft, Lee Alox, and 45-45-10, but I live in cold country, Ian lives in hot country that will by itself be the determining factor in lubes. Unless shooting hot magnum loads BLL is quick and easy and works. After that PC gets use because it can allow me to shoot softer lead at higher speeds without having to think about other issues, gas check, or BHN. I do use PC to increase diameter on under sized molds which is a great easy fix for molds wouldn’t get used otherwise.
But as everyone points out here it always gets back to fit.
Years ago when Ruger first came out with the Red Hawk in 44 mag I bought 3 with 7.5” barrels at one time. The reason is Langley’s got them in and they were consecutively serial numbered. So I had to have them, though I really had something for collecting. If I had kept them today they might be a plus to a collector, but at time they ended up as trading stock. I was casting for one of the Ruger pistols and sizing down to probably .429 maybe.430 or some size that all the local gun gurus said was the trick and if you get leading simply make your bullets harder. My bullets might have been as hard as 24 to 28 BHN. Well I got leading for two reasons, because I was running hot with lead as hard as I could make them. Wheel weights water dropped. Never occurred to me that my bullets were undersized.
Now I use the same mold size correctly, depends on the gun, but I think .431 and .432 are the most common. But the hot ones get PC’d. Is it necessary? No but gives me a little more margin on fit. But what helps the most is using lead that runs about 8-9 on the hardness scale.

 

[Newtire]

After digging out a few of my full power powder coated bullets from the berm, I'll have to agree. Not only are they the most consistently accurate cast loads I have shot but they mushroom as well. These were hardness tested with a LBT hardness tester and found to be 6-7 bhn.

 

[CZ93X62]

I routinely run pure lead #358429s at 900 FPS from my S&W & Ruger 38 Specials and 357 Magnums. Bullets are sized @ 358", and the expander spud is same dimension (the '.360"' spud from a 38 S&W Cowboy Die Set. Two gems of info from above--1) Size matters, and 2) Don't allow your cases to squeeze down your properly sized bullets.

 

[Bret4207]

Morning Bret,

Since going PC on bullets, BHN for me is now 100% about bullet preformance on game. If target its no longer much of a thought.

Yes, PC can add allot or a little depending upon your process or application. But its applied before sizing so largely moot.

GC for me, my use and remember most all I do surrounds hunting use. I dont hot rod everything. But I need a 357 to do what a 357 can do. Same in 41 or 44... So I needed a GC for hunting loads I loaded before PC.

I also like the looks of some colors and the instant ID of loaded utilizing them.

Looking at Bullseye, I just liked the cleaner less smoky aspect if PC. 100% there it was not as advantageous.

Another aspect mentioned precious is encapsulation of the lead. It is a jacket after all and offers same protections a plated bullet does.

No NOT A PISSING MATCH! Just two guys offering there perspectives on a given topic.

Different stokes. For me, on game, Bhn is basically irrelevant. Use a FN, end of story. Real simple. Far as sizing, I thought it was recommended to size before PC? I was also under the impression there is some "spring back" to at least some brands of PC?

PB in a 357 or 44 at mag levels isn't that difficult. If I can do it, most anyone can. GC just make it easier, lots easier in smaller stuff like a 32-20 when you push it real hard.

I don't get why you'd use a GC and PC when you said OC negates the need for a GC?

As I've said a zillion times before, to each their own. I'm just a born skeptic I guess.

 

[fiver]

you just have to use the stuff, and then figure out where it works best for your applications.
i have a hundred 45-70 bullets i coated that i'm hoping will work simply so i can not use a gas check on them.
maybe,, maybe not, i've got a pretty tight tolerance in that Browning and the plain lead is all but touching the barrel now.
the diameter won't be my problem it's the tight saami throat.
if it don't work i'll melt them down and go back to the 45-45-10 coating, buy another thousand gas checks, then move along to the 8mm with the same test.

 

[richhodg66]

Thus far, no one has made a compelling enough argument for it for me to start.

Never shoot indoors and hate doing so, smoke doesn't bother me.

Never get leading because I generally know what I'm doing.

Not looking for velocities above what normal cast is plenty capable of.

Just can't figure how going through all that rigamarol of shaking and baking, or worse, dealing with acetone and other nasty stuff and STILL having to run them all through a sizer is somehow easier than just running them through a sizer and lubing at the same time.

Just can't see the benefit, doubt I ever will. The one place I can see it would be if I needed an increased diamter of a bullet to get a good fit, that might be an application where it would be worthwhile if I ever need to do it.

Sticking with traditional lube until I see a reason to switch besides pretty colors.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Different stokes. For me, on game, Bhn is basically irrelevant. Use a FN, end of story. Real simple. Far as sizing, I thought it was recommended to size before PC? I was also under the impression there is some "spring back" to at least some brands of PC?

PB in a 357 or 44 at mag levels isn't that difficult. If I can do it, most anyone can. GC just make it easier, lots easier in smaller stuff like a 32-20 when you push it real hard.

I don't get why you'd use a GC and PC when you said OC negates the need for a GC?

As I've said a zillion times before, to each their own. I'm just a born skeptic I guess.

At hand gun velocities, PC all but eliminates the need of a GC. BUT, if a bullet calls for a GC, they shoot best WITH a GC. Regardless of conventional lube or Powder Coated.

I have always Sized last. I dont find any appreciable spring back.

I have shot my Range scrap cast into a PB bullet. Powder coated & shot @ 2000 with zero bullet fouling. From Multiple different calibers.

Sometimes I agree, some scenarios, a WFN bullet & BHI isnt a thought. But I shoot alotta Expanding points. BHN matters there. PC dosent seem to have measurable effects on this.

 

[Dimner]

Thus far, no one has made a compelling enough argument for it for me to start.

Never shoot indoors and hate doing so, smoke doesn't bother me.

Never get leading because I generally know what I'm doing.

Not looking for velocities above what normal cast is plenty capable of.

Just can't figure how going through all that rigamarol of shaking and baking, or worse, dealing with acetone and other nasty stuff and STILL having to run them all through a sizer is somehow easier than just running them through a sizer and lubing at the same time.

Just can't see the benefit, doubt I ever will. The one place I can see it would be if I needed an increased diamter of a bullet to get a good fit, that might be an application where it would be worthwhile if I ever need to do it.

Sticking with traditional lube until I see a reason to switch besides pretty colors.

The benefit is differnent for different folk...one being: us who have no wax lube sizing equipment.

I started out using BLL and push through sizing dies. Never going over 1700fps. That's all I wanted in the beginning.

Then, When I got the M1 garand and played around with cast in an AR15, i gave wax lube a try with some white label 2500+ ... finger lubing got old real quick. Pan lubing is a mess, at least for me. I wasn't happy with the minimal output and mess of wax lube.

That's is when I started playing with PC.

Everyone's road is different. Some people keep driving on by. Me, I took the PC exit because I had good sizing equipment already. But no lube method and didn't want to shell out the dough.

PC for me in 4 steps:

• Bought a pound of lube
• Ate many spoonfuls of cool whip
• Found a 17 dollar convection toaster oven at the thrift store.
• Listened to people when they say to size bullets 0.001" over groove size

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Pan lubed those LEE 50/320 REAL bullets yesterday. Ill start popping these out a d moving them to Sucrets tins for field use.


Kinda a pain but no way found to obvert in a BP firearm.

I didnt PC THESE but will experiment. But will still need outside lube so somewhat moot.

CW

 

[richhodg66]

Some good looking REALs there.

I never have shot game with them, but it sure is a good design for target work. Few years ago, I bought a little CVA advertised locally mainly because it came with a pound of real black powder. Uber cheapie rifle with a synthetick stock, but after I widened the rear sight notch a bit, that little .54 will put the REALs on top of each other all day long at 50 yards. One of these days, I'll kill a deer with it, used to do that a lot with an Investarms Hawken and the Lyman plains bullet.

 

[Bret4207]

Thus far, no one has made a compelling enough argument for it for me to start.

Never shoot indoors and hate doing so, smoke doesn't bother me.

Never get leading because I generally know what I'm doing.

Not looking for velocities above what normal cast is plenty capable of.

Just can't figure how going through all that rigamarol of shaking and baking, or worse, dealing with acetone and other nasty stuff and STILL having to run them all through a sizer is somehow easier than just running them through a sizer and lubing at the same time.

Just can't see the benefit, doubt I ever will. The one place I can see it would be if I needed an increased diamter of a bullet to get a good fit, that might be an application where it would be worthwhile if I ever need to do it.

Sticking with traditional lube until I see a reason to switch besides pretty colors.

Exactly where I am. The ability to increase diameter on a "skinny" mould or to go to speeds where traditional lubes are so great. Haven;t got time to shoot, much less load, much less cast these days, so it's pretty academic to me.

I find the colors that don't look like lead alloy a turn off myself. But, as always, to each their own.