Black PC and dry tumble
- Thread starter waco
- Start date
Ian
Notorious member
Waco's got a Kimber.
Those pony beads look to be worth a try. I'm not beholden to airsoft bbs, in fact the only reason I used them was someone gave me a big unopened container of yellow ones many years ago and I was happy to find a use for them. I'll need more if I add any more colors to the palette so will give beads a go.
Those pony beads look to be worth a try. I'm not beholden to airsoft bbs, in fact the only reason I used them was someone gave me a big unopened container of yellow ones many years ago and I was happy to find a use for them. I'll need more if I add any more colors to the palette so will give beads a go.
Reloader762
Active Member
I can tell no difference in how they work with the PC. I originally bought some of the black BB's but came across a lifetime supply of the beads in the storage building while doing spring cleaning and gave them a try and they worked great. The PC will wash off easily and they can be reused if need be. Many don't use any beads at all but I like the results I get using them and they ain't costing anything.
waco
Springfield, Oregon
My Lyman manual says they should be at .473"Waco, if it was me, I'd be adding some TC to those, but if they work for you.
The bullets look really nice.
Bill
Mine measure .470" with a mic. A little more crimp might be in order?
Ian
Notorious member
I put thousands of rounds through my Tactical Pro II in competition running a .471" mouth (as much as I could get seating and crimping in one step without shaving lead) and .4525" bullets lubed with straight LLA. The only issue I had was the premature slide lock before switching to the 230-grain stepped round nose bullet. That pistol would feed empty cases. The smoke and stench from a 21-round stage on a muggy, hot Saturday morning was atrocious.
I have not been so lucky with .4525" bullets or so little crimp in other brands of 1911-pattern pistols. Also, both if my Kimbers have had generous throats that had me back-tracking my COAL for the others.
I have not been so lucky with .4525" bullets or so little crimp in other brands of 1911-pattern pistols. Also, both if my Kimbers have had generous throats that had me back-tracking my COAL for the others.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Waco, it depends on your gun. I ran 0.466-.467 for decades, but that was because reliability was
absolutely paramount in IPSC competiton, and probably a bit related to infrequent cleanings
of the guns, like every 5000 rds or so whether they needed it or not. I think that sharp corner
on the brass may have scraped up residue and piled it ahead and helped create an occasional
failure to close. With more of a crimp, more room for residue.
In any case, the front edge WILL have no problem headspacing, even at a tighter TC. With soft
bullets, maybe there is some damage unfolding a tighter TC? Not sure about that at all.
Also, there is a huge difference in TC dies, two styles (which I was not aware of until relatively recently).
All the old style have a TC zone in the die over about 3/16" of an inch, but there are newer TC
dies out there that have no visible step in the die, a smooth taper over several inches. With the
short taper style, you will not have any problem going from .470 to .469 or .468, it will be a fraction
of a turn, like 1/8th on the die. The other kind is problematic going past where you are now, or
can be, you have to swage down the entire bullet basically. IMO, that kind of TC die is to be avoided.
But, if your ammo is 100% reliable, then leave it alone. If you have an odd failure to close every now and
then, try a couple thousandths tighter TC on those. This solved those last few niggling 'jams' for guys
shooting competition, where no alibis were allowed and the cost to a match score of a failure to feed or
close was huge.
Bill
absolutely paramount in IPSC competiton, and probably a bit related to infrequent cleanings
of the guns, like every 5000 rds or so whether they needed it or not. I think that sharp corner
on the brass may have scraped up residue and piled it ahead and helped create an occasional
failure to close. With more of a crimp, more room for residue.
In any case, the front edge WILL have no problem headspacing, even at a tighter TC. With soft
bullets, maybe there is some damage unfolding a tighter TC? Not sure about that at all.
Also, there is a huge difference in TC dies, two styles (which I was not aware of until relatively recently).
All the old style have a TC zone in the die over about 3/16" of an inch, but there are newer TC
dies out there that have no visible step in the die, a smooth taper over several inches. With the
short taper style, you will not have any problem going from .470 to .469 or .468, it will be a fraction
of a turn, like 1/8th on the die. The other kind is problematic going past where you are now, or
can be, you have to swage down the entire bullet basically. IMO, that kind of TC die is to be avoided.
But, if your ammo is 100% reliable, then leave it alone. If you have an odd failure to close every now and
then, try a couple thousandths tighter TC on those. This solved those last few niggling 'jams' for guys
shooting competition, where no alibis were allowed and the cost to a match score of a failure to feed or
close was huge.
Bill
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Ian
Notorious member
I'm doing about .467-8" now in a separate step with a Lee taper-crimp-only die Bill sent me. My Redding die did not have an abrupt enough taper to get below .470" without crushing the upper half of the bullet. Prior to obtaining the Lee die I had been using an ancient but minty RCBS roll-crimp die which also works well but is more sensitive to case length than a proper TC die.
On the roll crimp, in .45 ACP reloading literature you will see frequent warnings about not using a roll crimp on a cartridge which headspaces on the case mouth. However, I have TRIED to create a severe enough roll that the mouth would enter the throat and was never able to without severely damaging the bullet or forcing the entire mouth past the crimp shoulder and even then only one of my .45s would fail the plunk test afterward.
On the roll crimp, in .45 ACP reloading literature you will see frequent warnings about not using a roll crimp on a cartridge which headspaces on the case mouth. However, I have TRIED to create a severe enough roll that the mouth would enter the throat and was never able to without severely damaging the bullet or forcing the entire mouth past the crimp shoulder and even then only one of my .45s would fail the plunk test afterward.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Green means tracer, right, Ian? 
LOL. Not really offended by those My Little Pony bullets, but they are weirder than I
want to intentionally do if I can avoid it. That round is not going to hang an edge of a case mouth on a sharp
area, or pick up a lot of grunge and cause feeding issues. I always recommend at least trying a bit tighter
TC for failures to close.
There is a thread around here where mostly myself, Ian and Brad thrashed this out (and I know I learned
about TC dies from it!) and if you are actually interested in the process, it is out there, I am sure.
IME, it is absolutely impossible to overcrimp in the sense of causing a headspace issue without the
cartridge being visibly "not OK". OTOH, I doubt that many actually need a .463 or .464 TC, but if you
work out the math after gauge pinning the chamber/throat area, you will see that you really can't
fail to get headspacing to occur properly with any remotely sane TC, with most of the chambers
out there. And chambers/throats have been getting tighter, not looser in the last few decades, pretty
huge percentage of "match chambers", which are even less likely to have problems with "too much"
TC, more likely having problems chambering a normal .452 SWC with more than .025-040 sticking out of
the case.
But, after all that....if the gun is happy, your ammo is fine, waco.
Bill
LOL. Not really offended by those My Little Pony bullets, but they are weirder than Iwant to intentionally do if I can avoid it. That round is not going to hang an edge of a case mouth on a sharp
area, or pick up a lot of grunge and cause feeding issues. I always recommend at least trying a bit tighter
TC for failures to close.
There is a thread around here where mostly myself, Ian and Brad thrashed this out (and I know I learned
about TC dies from it!) and if you are actually interested in the process, it is out there, I am sure.
IME, it is absolutely impossible to overcrimp in the sense of causing a headspace issue without the
cartridge being visibly "not OK". OTOH, I doubt that many actually need a .463 or .464 TC, but if you
work out the math after gauge pinning the chamber/throat area, you will see that you really can't
fail to get headspacing to occur properly with any remotely sane TC, with most of the chambers
out there. And chambers/throats have been getting tighter, not looser in the last few decades, pretty
huge percentage of "match chambers", which are even less likely to have problems with "too much"
TC, more likely having problems chambering a normal .452 SWC with more than .025-040 sticking out of
the case.
But, after all that....if the gun is happy, your ammo is fine, waco.
Bill
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Ian
Notorious member
I only mentioned my experiences here in the very light of "if YOUR guns are happy" may or may not in some instances be good enough. I have an array of firearms chambered in the cartridge, all with different chambers and throats and need to feed all of them the same ammunition. You may find yourself needing to feed someone else's gun as a friendly gesture at the range or in a dire emergency. I want my combat ammunition to work as intended in anything chambered for the cartridge, so that means smaller bullets, 230 grains, a lot more crimp than my Kimbers require, powder coat, and nearly maximum load levels. YMMV.
fiver
Well-Known Member
I know I have told of using a 'bump' with a roll crimp die [for the 45 auto rim cases] before too, and that does actually work.
but I don't use that technique too often.
I get around the whole thing by not seating out that 'thumbnail of shoulder' like everyone uses.
I seat all of mine with the shoulder or full diameter width just about flush with the case mouth, this leaves an almost noticeable step from the case mouth to the nose of the bullet.
if there is any trash to be scraped up it just gets shoved into that step area.
but I don't use that technique too often.
I get around the whole thing by not seating out that 'thumbnail of shoulder' like everyone uses.
I seat all of mine with the shoulder or full diameter width just about flush with the case mouth, this leaves an almost noticeable step from the case mouth to the nose of the bullet.
if there is any trash to be scraped up it just gets shoved into that step area.
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
I have a big tub of these in the garage, waiting for this exact use. Airsoft BBs are only available about a half hour away in bulk. I can buy these beads anywhere it seems. I just haven't gotten to use them yet. And yes, they are much cheaper than AS BBs.
I have some black airsoft BB's but I've found that Pony Beads work just as well and are much cheaper usually around $1 a pack.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
A college classmate raced a Kaw in the 250cc class at Daytona. Out qualified Kenny Roberts in
1972, IIRC, basically beating the factory Yamaha team in the 250 class to the pole position, although he had a 750cc
Yamaha for that bigger class. Engineering student, built his own monocoque aluminum chassis for the Kaw.
Unfortunately, when he was leading on about the 5th lap, the engine failed. But it was painted that color.
He was eighth in the motorcycle world championships in 78 when he got blinded in a street car accident.
Bill
1972, IIRC, basically beating the factory Yamaha team in the 250 class to the pole position, although he had a 750cc
Yamaha for that bigger class. Engineering student, built his own monocoque aluminum chassis for the Kaw.
Unfortunately, when he was leading on about the 5th lap, the engine failed. But it was painted that color.
He was eighth in the motorcycle world championships in 78 when he got blinded in a street car accident.
Bill
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