I need a bigger hammer


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I'm a lot disappointed right now with my 300 Blackouts for killing pigs. This afternoon the guy that owns the property behind whwere I work called for someone to come shoot a pig that broke through his fence if they wanted the meat. I said sure, no problem, lemme grab my AR and I'll be there in two minutes. Well, turns out there were two of them, maybe 130-150 lbs, trotting along the back fence at about 120 yards, so I found the front one's nose in the crosshairs and opened up. Not enough lead, hit the back one twice broadside, about 4-5' back from poa. So I pulled ahead some more and kept spraying. They changed directions and I repeated, to no effect. I could here a miss ricochet off a rock once in a while amid the loud impacts. Finally they got back through the fence and away into the hills. I picked up fourteen pieces of brass and the landowner said he counted 11 hits, which is about what I had figured. We found a few little spats of blood but not much. Never even got a squeal! He thought the whole episode was hilarious and kidded me that he meant bring a rifle, not my airsoft rig, but I was not a little perturbed because I got a few solid neck/shoulder in each of them and they barely even noticed. Might as well have been airsoft.

So that led me to some furious internet browsing this evening and a lot of re-visiting my pig gun philosophy. I built a suppressed, short .458 Socom for just this scenario (it was at home this afternoon, of course) and it is magnificent at destroying wild pigs....if they are hit. A trotting pig can require several feet of lead at 100 yards when using sub-sonic loads, and piggies have a tendency to stop and start and change directions constantly, so even if you have the drop estimated correctly the pig can simply walk away from the bullet before it gets there. I never really thought that part through very well before, but now I'm facepalming.

So I need a new piggie hammer for longer ranges, like up to 250 yards. I don't want to have to break out the range finder to make a three-foot elevation correction if its 225 yards and not 190. I want a semi-auto.

Considerations are .375 Socom or 6.8 SPC for the AR-15, or .45 or .375 Raptor and build an LR-308.

One more option, and the one I just about have myself talked into at the moment would be to build the LR-308 as .358 Winchester. I dont have one and a bunch of you rave about how good they can be with cast bullets on the top end. I already have moulds and gas checks for the .35 Remington, and buckets of good LC brass. Besides, if I don't like it I can build another upper in .45 Raptor easily enough.

I also have a scoped, suppressable M1A that shoots pretty well with cast bullets and has killed pigs for me, but the .308 isn't any great shakes at putting pork on the ground real quick unless shot placement is near perfect.

What would you consider for a flat-shooting, medium-range pig hammer?


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You could try supers, 125-150gr. I have a lr308 rifle upper that is too heavy for me to carry.


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Ian I have to ask are you looking for a strictly cast bullet rifle?

I have some input and suggestions once I know that answer.


Staff member
The answer has been around for well over a century.

A Marlin 1895 is quite handy and faster handling. A nice 405 cast flat nose at 14-1500 FPS is a real hammer. I pushed one to 1600 and put down a couple black bears with a single shot each.


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might as well go browning 86,,, then you at least look cool.

run your socom with some 250gr RNFP's @ 1600 fps. that will shoot flat enough to 100+- yards and do the job just fine.
I know you got that LEE mold, just powder coat some and don't look back.


Staff member
I put down a pig with the Ruger 44m 7 1/2 inch, 300 gr bullet, took a follow up shot. Guy I was hunting with was using a rifle in 308, one shot and DRT, never even wiggled. Nothing wrong with the 308 for pigs

358156 hp

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300 HRT might do what you want, it's another Teppo Jutsu development, and is essentially a 6.8 necked up to .308 using 30 Herrett dies. Then there's the 358 Yeti, a shortened 308 necked up. IIRC, the Teppo Jutsu site has listings for a lot of AR15 based wildcats.


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If you don’t care to go jacketed order a 6.5 Timberwolf barrel in the spring from MDWS. I just contacted them yesterday and they expect bolts and barrels back in stock around April.

I’m putting a 6.5 Grendel together tomorrow too which I feel would be good, but probably not cast friendly.


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Quite an experience, Ian. o_O

This is only my opinion, don't have a 300blk, ain't shootin pigs. The 300blk with subs probably isn't great much past 50yd on tough little critters. We are talking 45acp, but a smaller hole.

I love the lr308 setup, the 308 with full tilt Jax is a much bigger hammer. Even with high velocity cast the same blow up death performance isn't quite as easily attained with 308. 45 raptor, no sales pitch needed, I want one. That ain't gunna meet your quiet sub bill though.

At those ranges, with cast, with subs in mind I'd be looking at 450-500gr at 1050. What caliber is that? Sight in 1.5-2" high at 100.

I can make solid hits with the Excalibur 225lb crossbow at 75yds, can you drive a little closer?
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Active Member
Starline has 223 basic. How about a 357 maximum rimless. I have read about a few of these.

The 30x221 never did anything for me years ago and I am still not interested.


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the 375 socum would have a penetration advantage.
a 280gr 375 bullet is about as long as a 165gr 30 cal bullet just bigger around.


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The 375 socom is a great round I just know Ian prefers to stay on the lighter side in the recoil department.

That was why I suggested the 6.5’s. MDWS also has several other wildcats based off the 5.56 case that produce some great velocity while staying in the smaller AR 15 platform.


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ok... 1) IF this is how dismal a 300 BO is on hogs (really only reason I got it - and for short distance), and 2) also why I have the 45-70! (and SOON, a 38-55!), then the 300 BO is gonna move down the road!


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The .458 Socom is the answer up to about 150 yards, on pigs which are relatively still. The big problem with it is just can't get decent trajectory out of anything between 300 and 500 grains because even on the lightest practical end of the spectrum its still a 1900 fps platform at best, and a 10.5-12" barrel more like 1600. Might as well just stick with 500 grain subs because the light bullets run out of poop a lot quicker. I have one of these, killed a pig with it, and know its power and limitations. Every ten yards past 130 with my 500 grain subs must be accounted for with a geometrically-increasing holdover. A 100 yard zero put you something like 110" low at 200, it is not realistic to calculate in the field when stalking and some shots may be fast and far.

The Blackout shoots flat enough even with 230-grain subs, and packs plenty if energy and penetration, only loses about 35 fps and 18" give or take by 200 yards, and is very accurate. The problem is finding a bullet that works. The straight WW cast and coated bullets just slip through the pig and it doesn't even know it's hit. There are several custom bullet makers out there who have fixes for this, but on a pig's tough hide and gristle you have to worry about it expanding too much, too soon and basically bouncing off like a .45 acp hollow point. My cast subsonic bullets SHOULD have tumbled and made hash of the pigs but I guess the 7-twist carbine I had with me today stabilizes them too much. They penciled through, the holes filled with fat, and the pigs ran off, possibly will even live through it. I've killed pigs with a 30-30 and am not going to try to kill them with light supers in the blackout at any range.

I'm limited on how much recoil my eyes can handle but suppressors and semiautos suck up a lot of the sharp kick. I use suppressors for hearing protection mostly and that doesn't mean subsonic only loads. I'm not against jax and am going to need something that stays near 2k fps out to 200 yards. Big bore and cast is my preference, but 6.5s with some speed and weight and good bullet construction are killers for sure.

You guys have given me some good input to mull over for a bit, thank you and keep it coming.


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While I lean toward a 45-70 with a 400 grain G/T bullet for the piggies, at the range you're talking about, sounds like that scoped M1A might be your answer.


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If you give up on subsonic suppressed, I think a Barnes 62 gr triple shock would work well
on the little pigs. Deep penetration, should have the energy and speed to minimize problems
with lead. Still have the light AR platform, lots of shots.

If you want to use the .300 BO, why not two alloy SPs or deep hpts if you want to use cast?

If you don't like that option, Rem 35 lever gun would be a nice 'big hammer' with 200 gr
RN JSPs. Not subsonic, but readily available. Frankly, your .303 Savage 99 would work well
with the proper bullets, if cast HPts or pure Pb noses on two alloy cast, or just a nice
Hornady JSP.

And no doubt a . 308 in the M1A would do it, too.



St Lawrence river valley, NY
Absolutely on the 303! RCBS 30-180FN at 1800 fps plus is going to do the job just fine. If it's gotta be a semi, build a Garand in 35 Whelen.

We don't have wild hogs around here, not yet any way. I'm okay with that...


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I've got a 7.62 Wilson Tactical that I've been pretty happy with. AR15 platform, 223/5.6 brass, 30 caliber, 250 yard gun, light for caliber bullet using Sierra 125 Pro Hunter or Barnes 110 TTSX at 2,400 to 2,500 fps, Accurate has the 31-155W mold that I haven't wrung out, yet.
Wilson reinvented it as the 300 Hamm"r, cause 7.62x40 Wilson Tactical won't fit on a case head.
Not big and heavy, but big and heavy will require a big and heavy rig to get the trajectory you are looking for.
May not be what you want, but I think it's on par with the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC and uses 223 brass.
Also, I've had pretty good luck with the 62 gr. TTSX in 5.56. Just costly.
Or u might wait to see what the military is binging out as the new tactical round.
My two cents and probably not worth that much!


Use supersonics for hunting, subs for play. You've just been shown why. You're working with a little gun, don't handicap it. .300 Blackout kills lots of pigs and deer down here with proper ammo. The subs work at close range with head shots at night with night vision optics(on the pigs).