I need a bigger hammer

[Ian]

No .30s for pigs unless there is an '06 or Mag involved. I've killed them with three different .30s and have yet to be impressed. If you haven't tried to put down a wild boar, particularly at longer ranges, you likely don't have an appreciation for how tough they are. They aren't bullet proof, but they can soak up an ungodly amount of damage and still run great distances.

I have a scoped Marlin 336 in .35 Reminton and have a good 2100 fps load worked up for it using Lee's fabulous 200-grain bullet. Past 125 yards, not so good. Velocity and trajectory falls like a rock. I also have a .45 Colt Henry that dotes on 300-grain WFN bullets and is bad-ass out to a out 80 yards. Same thing with my .458 Socom......but I'm listening, Fiver, might have to run some Quickload numbers and I have a 2C 255-grain mould that casts .4555" and might coat up to .4585". Failing that I have a 270-something thats a little pointier and makes .456". Should be able to crank those up to 17-1800 fps in my short-barreled AR, and it might be enough.

So it looks like it's going to be a .375 Socom or .458 light/fast in an AR-15, or a .45 or .375 Raptor or .358 Winchester in an LR-308 platform. I just need to review some bullet options and BC/trajectory numbers some more.

 

[RBHarter]

I like the 6.8 SPC .
60 or so posts from a zero count test fired cheapo depot rifle .
The first 3-4 posts are rather rudimentary but the work up information and my pitfalls may be of some value .
https://68forums.com/forums/showthr...uot-free-quot-bullets-or-casting-on-the-cheap

I used the NOE 279-124 it casts .279 and ready to load 131 gr . I was able to get to about 950 ftlb at 100 yd . The load retained sufficient energy to penetrate a 1/4" crs plate at that range . My alloy is 75-25 WW/lead tamper seals . The lead seals are I believe 20-1 lead tin . It picks some copper from the seal wires during the clean up rendering a heat treated bullet of 18bhn that behaves like about 22 in the barrel and 14 on target . It seems to be on par with the old Win silver tip 150 in 30-30 inside 50 yd .
At your leisure .

 

[Pistolero]

I posted about building a scout scope mount for a friend's 8mm M98 Mauser. I loaded
for him with Hornady 150 gr 8mm bullets at 2700 fps, not a max load, but about 150 fps under.

He has shot four pigs in Texas with it, says it knocked each one down flat, no runners.

That is the only thing I know about shooting pigs, and while, second hand, I believe it to be
correct, and I sure know the ammo used, since I built it and chronoed it, and sighted in the
rifle.

Seems like that Rem 35 would just do the trick. The 8x57 is faster, but a lighter and smaller
diameter bullet. I know this is a cast bullet forum, but the Sierra 200 JRN or the Hornady 200 JRN
in the 35 Rem ought to slap them down pretty good out to about 150.

According to Hornady's online ballistic calc, their 200 JRN at 2050, sighted in for 125 yds
is 1.4" high at 75 yds, 2" low at 150 and 5" low at 175 yds. Basically aim right on from zero
to 150, hold a hand width high for 175 yds.

Bill

 

[Ian]

Like I said, Bill, I've killed them with a variety of things but I want better and longer range. Inside 100 yards the .458 Socom with 500-grain cast rfn bullets is magnificent. It's basically a semi-auto trapdoor springfield and for subsonic loads is going to be very tough to beat for one-shot stops as long as I can lead them enough. Out beyond 150 yards the drop is measured in feet and if you don't know the range to within 5 yards plus/minus out there it really is hard to make hits. Not to mention wind drift and the pig has about a second to step out of the way. This is going to be true of any .44/.45 bullet not leaving the muzzle at 2K fps or better. The lighter big bore bullets are faster and drop less due to the speed, but they also lose speed very quickly so it's still a trade off beyond 100 yards.

Lone Star Boars was favoring a suppressed 6.8 last I was watching his vids. One vid told about bullet selection though, he tried some new whizbang ammo one night and was knocking the hell out of about 20 pigs inside about 75 yards, almost all of them got up and ran away except for one he shot five or six times and finally got a good cns hit. He was unimpressed in spite of it being demo ammo that he was obviously supposed to be bragging up in his vid.

 

[freebullet]

have not been overly impressed with the .308

Literally liquefied heart soup not impressive...

This smart fella I've learned oodles from/with has a saying "It's not how you do it, it's the way you do it."

Here is the way i consistently make heart soup with the 308. Add some quality brass, 40gr of varget, 168gr smk. Put them together about 20 thou of the lands or so. Sight in 1" high at 100, enjoy the light recoil & beautiful little cloverleaf holes.

Pull up, shoot one, STOP... ..if it didnt insta fall give it a moment, most times it will fall over or lay down & die. Realise before you shoot more that it can't live more than a moment without a heart. If any ran they will likely stop when that one falls. Now do the same thing to the other one/s. Each heart you've hit will be missing inside, it will simply be liquefied goo you pour out. The bullets explode leaving a 3" exit. This way hasn't failed us yet out to 300yd, up to 250lbs creatures. It is specifically for broadside culling. If you keep shooting before the first one falls they usually all run, that seems to be true for everything I've ever hunted.

Another way that may aid you with the rainbow. Using a ballistic reticle. Hunting is the reason I love them. If you can effectively guess yardage (within +or-30) you can use them on the fly effectively. That's how I use the inlines for run & gun, spot & stalk, & track down hunting. Once you get use to using them it is perfection for 0-250yds.

If you haven't tried one...Sims limbsaver recoil pad

As always placement is critical.

 

[Pistolero]

Ok, your pigs. Good luck.

Bill

 

[Ian]

Well, FB I can't argue with any of that. The only BUT involves imperfect shot placement. If I could place perfect shots, my subsonic Blackout would make brain soup and drt every time going in one ear and out the other one. Believe me, I tried some head shots Friday after multiple broadside hits did nothing, but didn't connect due to me not being good enough with figuring lead on a 1,000 fps bullet.

I have in fact killed a 250-lb pig with a 168 smk, it did the same thing a Hornady Match factory load did to a slightly smaller one: blew up under the hide on the entrance side. The Hornady got some jacket fragments into the spine above the shoulder and ended it. I thought the match grenades would be better than the ball ammo I had on hand, now I'm not so sure. I think premium hunting bullets are in order for the .308 for someone like me who can't reliably hit a rolling baseball at 1-200 yards offhand in field conditions. If I'm going to be hunting from a blind and only plan on killing one pig, just about anything will do.

Oh, there is one more BUT. Telling me I have a perfectly adequate M1A that fills all my criteria including suppressor and scope, reminding me that I have a 500-count brick of 68-grain SMKs, 2 bricks of CCI military primers, and a thousand rounds of clean brass, is doing no good whatsoever toward me building a .45 Raptor or .358 Win.

 

[Brad]

Barnes TSX is your friend here. They will not blow up. Faster they are driven the better they work.
They aren’t cheap but neither are most other good hunting bullets.
I would go with the 150 for the M1A. Get them over 2700 and hold over issues are no longer a factor. Don’t forget that a 150 gr TSX is as long as a traditional 165 BTSP.

 

[Ian]

Brad, I've never used a TSX but that is actually exactly what I had in mind. Premium deer-hunting bullets aren't going to be the best on thick hide, heavy bone, and armor. At 2700 fps muzzle velocity, lead on a trotting pig out to 200 yards becomes inches instead of feet. I see you don't want me to build a big-bore LR-308-variant rifle, either.

 

[Pistolero]

TSX was what I loaded for the owner of the safari place where I hunted in
Africa in 7x57. Not a max load since I had no idea what his gun was like. But
he shot two kudu with it, one at 200 yds, one shot stop each time. He was EXTREMELY
happy, and it shot very accurately in his nice custom rifle on a military M98 action.

OTOH, a std, ordinary Hornady flat base 150 gr at 2700, but .020 larger has slapped
four hogs right down. Not sure superbullets are needed, really, but they sure don't
hurt one bit.

I can see why the .35 Rem is no good for this application......you already have it.

Bill

 

[fiver]

punching shoulder tissue on a muddy 200 lb boar is the bane of many a bullet.

 

[Pistolero]

Interesting thread on another site.....

https://www.shootersforum.com/hunting-stories/98129-hawg-hunt-35-remington.html

And this looks like it needs "Ianizing", at least to me. After that Sav 99 resto-mod, this should be
a cake walk. Semi-auto hog stopper if there ever was one. JMB design, too. Takes spire points, too.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/795664127

Only a single shot.....but should be a real stopper.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/795383062

Bill

 

[Spindrift]

So, if I have understood your criteria correctly; reasonably flat trajectory, capacity for heavier bullets, >.30 cal, fits AR platform, not excessive recoil...
I have never owned a .338 federal, but to me it seems to tick all your boxes. Barnes has a 160grs TSX- bullet that (according to the Hodgdon database) can be launched at the healthy velocities (2700fps or more) that copper bullets need in order to expand properly. It should be an excellent combination for heavy large game. And the .338 fed should be a good cartridge for cast bullets. I have never shot a .338 fed though, so these are keybord dreams only.

 

[Bret4207]

Bret, if you have used it, that beats any theory.

Bill

Not on hogs. After reading some of what is written here, maybe they are super tough and you need "bear loads". I've killed hogs (domestic) with 22 shorts out of a 4" Kit Gun, big ones over 350lbs. Maybe the wild variety are just tougher? Aren't we still talking 2-3" of bone and gristle before we're into the parts that go gooey when punched with a bullet? Are we looking for DRT performance?

 

[Will]

358 yeti?

 

[RBHarter]

Well I had a great picture of a 4" exit wound from a Winchester .264 140 gr Power Point at about 2800 fps in what was left of the ribs of a 175# hog . It seems even down loaded a 264 WM is a little much at 100yd . Same trip another was shot quartering away 3 ribs behind the shoulder and it's face looked a little bit like a popped balloon . Neither pig went very far .

A 308 with a Hornady 3033 150 BTSP at 2800 fps only left a half dollar hide hole but punched all of the shields of a 145# hog and made blood and lung jelly in the chest cavity .

A factory loaded FC 168 gr HyShock in a 300 WSM failed to get into the chest cavity with 2 hits on the lower jowel head on .

35 Rem with a low snout hit , 250 gr 35-250 RCBS 50/50 @1900 fps 35 yd , passed through the sinuses , into the brain pan down the spinal colum exiting the 2nd vertebrae and lodging 4" behind the shoulder in the back straps .

30-30 1960s vintage 150 gr silver tip factory loaded 1" exit though 135# boar in behind the shoulder out in front of the off side shoulder . Down required a follow up for a single lung and broken low neck high back .

45 Colts carbine MV 1050 , 250-265 SWC and RNFP ranges from feet to 50 yd 100% pass through up to 3' of hog . 1 of 5 ran but he was already running when shot . The 454424 does enough shock damage for them to drown in their own blood .

Real field kills from real loads first hand as shooter or spotter .

257 Roberts 2700 fps 100 SGK . Head down between the ears top of the head head on spine impact 44 yd blood shot clear down into the 5th rib 125# sow .

Got a spare Mauser laying around ?
Get a Rhinland Arms 45 ACP barrel kit and a 460 Smith reamer or a straight 480 or like I did deep ream a 45 ACP chamber to 1.8" for a 45 Raptor (mine is actually 1.85 ") . There's nothing to change , OAL is a non issue and as long as you have good feed bullet shape doesn't matter either . 250-260 over 2000fps are actually not bad to shoot . 350s will have your full and undivided attention at 1800 fps in a 6.5# rifle . The barrel is available threaded and is in a 1-16" twist so you can go as heavy as you want , need or want to get hit with .

As an additional note the 45-70 AR whatever thing is just 284 Winchester blown straight , basic if you can get it , at 2.1" and run through a 45-70 sizer .

Shooting leads aren't a problem if you shoot enough ducks and geese . I once folded up a Canvas back at 50 yd with a 40 mph tail wind . That made the bird at 50-70 mph 1400 fps steel shot . Not a big deal in December after a limits almost every weekend for 8 weeks .

 

[popper]

Wrote this up under alloy before but I'll repeat. That bullet posted above, 30/30 16gr. 2400 in the gut and in the shoulder (dead pig). Took ~ 5 min for green fluid to start leaking out of the gut. 2 holes. Shoulder never exited (not sure, it had 4 shots from 40sw to the head) but busted the shoulder. I hit a running one with same bullet from BO ( 17gr 1680), well I fired 4 times and found blood on the johnson grass. The fired a 5th @ 50 yds and me & buddy laughed - it DUCKED. Never found that one. Moral of the story - you don't break something (or CNS hit), they don't go down. And 115gr 9mm are not very effective. Not really hard to put a hole in them, but even lung or heart shot, like a deer- lots of stored oxygen in the muscles for running. Got a vid of buddy & wife both emptying mags into a 150# hog before it went down (5 yds). They switched to 40, He got the one I spoke of above with single 40 shot, rear quartering. Still kicking so we used some ammo to get it to stop. I missed the trip where he had a 350# @ 250 yrs feeding, 7 mag scoped from a stand and he didn't get it. He typically get several hits on a running yote with 223 AR and they don't go down either. Can you hit a running hog with 220gr sub from a BO at range? I couldn't.

 

[fiver]

it's not the A to B time that gets you it's the A to B and the up to down combination.
you have to lead it at a 45* angle.

 

[popper]

I agree, that's why I don't use subs.

 

[358156 hp]

Oh, there is one more BUT. Telling me I have a perfectly adequate M1A that fills all my criteria including suppressor and scope, reminding me that I have a 500-count brick of 68-grain SMKs, 2 bricks of CCI military primers, and a thousand rounds of clean brass, is doing no good whatsoever toward me building a .45 Raptor or .358 Win.

Then you're overlooking an obvious solution, you need either a 45 Raptor, or a 358 Win.