Primer test

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Paul has some CCI 450 for me to try.

What could be another interesting test . . . 450 small rifle magnum and 550 small pistol magnum. Is there a difference in them? Could be, maybe not. I dunno but would be an interesting test. Curious minds gotta know.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I'd pop one off before loading any cases with any of the harder cup stuff.

I'm wondering if the rebounding hammer is what's causing the hard cups to not go off.
you'd think that the 24" barrel would settle things down a little better too.
if nothing else this reproves that primers make a difference.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
The rebounding hammer may be part of the problem. It obviously doesn't have the strongest mainspring. Paul uses Remington 7 1/2 primers in his Win 94 357 with no problems. I wonder if it is a matter of the 92 being designed for pistol cartridges so the spring is made to set off pistol primers but not rifle.

Here is a chart I found that shows cup thickness of a few primers.

Based on the chart I wonder if the CCI 450 will fire reliably. Paul has some on hand so I can try 20 or so and find out.
IMG_3227.PNG
 
F

freebullet

Guest
I have plenty of 550's on hand. Your welcome to some for testing. I bet I have some fed too, but would have to dig around to find them. Good cross sample of sr primers too.
 
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Jeff H

NW Ohio
Will have to look that up. I never considered 4227 hard to ignite but it may be?

I have had IMR 4227 fail to light in the 35 Maximum using a full case, 180 grain cast with a gas check, plenty of "neck" tension and a firm crimp using Wolf Small Rifle "Magnum" primers. There's nothing "magnum" about these primers and they differ from regular primers only in that they have a tougher cup to prevent slam fires in autos (ARs). These primers have ignited reliably in the 223, 222, 300 BLK, 357 Mag and 357 Max in numerous rifles and at least one revolver (SP101) in spite of the tougher cup.

When these failed to ignite the powder, I was using a Handi-Rifle with a factory hammer spring and had no previous issues with primers failing to light. There has never been any evidence of light primer strikes in any of the guns I use them in (Handi-Rifles, TC Contenders, Ruger 77/357, SP101, Rossi 92, CZ 527s)

When I pulled down the three which failed to fire (from a batch of forty) in the 357 Max case using IMR4227, I found the aluminum gas checks had some gray/blak soot and minor impressions of the powder kernels on them. Inspecting the primers indicated that they had in fact lit - they just hadn't lit the powder. I had not gotten to the chronographing stage of that development so can't asy what the extreme spread was. Accuracy was neither terrible nor great or I'd have remembered that. It was not particularly cold out - at least above freezing.

That's the only time I've ever had that happen and had never had any issue getting IMR 4227 to light using non-magnum primers, but it got my attention because having the primer light but not igniting the primer is dicey. Had they been light primer strikes, I wouldn't have though much of it, but a "misfire" could really be a hangfire and in a break-action, it could be a bad day on either end of the rifle if you open it at just the wrong moment.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I remember a discussion I had with 44 man one time about 4227 going squirrely in the heat in the 44 mag.
and about H-110 fitzing out in the cold.
I like 4227 in the 445 supermag under heavier 300+ type bullets, but,,,, I would have to double check to see if I use rifle primers in that case.
none of that is really pertinent to this discussion, I just got to thinking about it a little, but it would tend to steer me towards MP-300 for heavy year round loads in the 44 mag.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I will try some Unique in this rifle too. I am using the 4227 as I have a bunch and not many other uses for it out side this rifle and the 300 BO. Eight pounds is a bunch of 300 BO loads.
I may try 2400 too. It is a great powder and I have a fair bit of it on hand.
 

Eutectic

Active Member
I'd have a look at that mainspring. Could be adjustable..... Probably a coil spring unlike a leaf in original 92's. If you don't see something easy I'd get a stiffer spring if were my gun. It hits light enough to maybe cause a problem even with thinner cups just when you don't want it too!

Pete
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Got 4 different primers to test.
Looking at QL I was shocked to see that with I4227 it will be about impossible to over pressure the load. Runs out of case capacity before pressure gets near max.

Will likely retest all primers with Unique, Power Pistol, or 2400.

The 4227 load was struggling to reach 1600 fps, QL shows that 1850 should be possible. Not a real desire to get max velocity but it does show that the 4227 wasn't even close to maxed out.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
CCI 400,450, Fed 200 and 205,

All told that gives me 9 primers for further testing. Well, actually 6 because I won't be retesting the ones that gave me fits trying to set them off.
 
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I can get some from Bruce easily enough. That would let me test about everything there is. Too bad I don't still have some Tula to try.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I'm curious about comparing the 450 and the 550. Be interesting to see what, if. how much difference there is.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Maybe I should blame it on a squirming baby?:headscratch:

Going to be interesting to see what I get. Will I see a difference in primer performance with different powders?
 

Ian

Notorious member
Naw, blame the cat.

Idk if you'll see a difference across all the powders but it seems likely.