Reloading for 45 Auto Rim in S&W 1917

[Pistolero]

The Chief of the KC, Mo PD in the 80 didn't like "the look" of speed loader carriers on the belts of his officers, (carried S&W M64)
refused to permit them. Two good friends were patrol officers and we talked a lot. In a one on one shootout
with a shotgunner, with the shotgunner behind a dumpster (bullet proof) and the officer behind a brick building (just as
bulletproof), things were OK until the officer leaned out to shoot and picked up several buckshot pellets in his right,
dominant, arm. Now he is back behind the building reloading weak handed from a dump pouch, gun between his
knees. He hears the crunching of gravel as the shotgunner, after counting to six, is moving his way. The officer
gets in two, comes up weak handed and ended the fight successfully. And NOT happy about the reload.

The next day in the hospital, when the Chief visited, the officer gave the Chief the choice of immediately approving
speed loaders TODAY, or the officer holding a press conference about how he almost died because of the Chief's
worrying about appearances of the equipment belt. I heard this first from my friend officers and about a year
later ran into the actual officer involved and he relayed the story to me.

Hard to understand some of the "knot-head managers" sometimes, no doubt.

Bill

 

[Ian]

"Knot-head" is simply a polite way of saying "incompetent, arrogant stupid-ass" which due to the Peter Principle is pervasive in middle management.

 

[462]

I once worked for a company that, at one time was the world's largest retailer, and saw firsthand the non-productive and non-profitable consequences of the Peter Principle.

 

[Pistolero]

Agree totally on the basic impossibility of having any sort of a headspace issue with .45 ACP with ANY crimp
type.

I'd call the Chief of Police well above middle managment, too.

Bill

 

[CZ93X62]

Policy weirdnesses abound in the working world. Very glad to be largely divorced from much of that nonsense now. Marie is striving to re-enter the working world after about 2 years of retirement.......I think she is out of her mind, but I stay low/keep dark/remain supportive because I adore her. Still think she is nutz, but admire her drive.

My current employment mostly involves grandparenting, which is by far the best job I have ever had. The grandson in Lynnwood WA is a scary-smart history buff (15 y/o), and absolutely LOVES WWI and WWII-era history. He LOVES to shoot, especially milsurp rifles and handguns from those times. He rather likes my AR-15 as well--the A2-upper version. He is all about the milsurps.

The remaining portion of my retirement portfolio involves physical activity and exercise, most of which is derived from jumping to conclusions. I do reload some ammo from time to time as well.

 

[Bret4207]

I have used HKS #10-A speedloaders with my Webley-Enfield 38/200 DAO revolver, and the regimen is much like that described by Bret, with the adaptation of the left hand holding the barrel and left thumb aligning the cylinder with the 6 bullet noses.

I never loaded from loops. I used Bianchi Speed Strips inside my dump boxes, and went to HKS loaders a couple years after joining up. The speedloader baskets went just to the right of my Sam Browne belt buckle, where the dump boxes had been located. The dump boxes were moved to the small of my back, kinda centered at 6 o'clock. Hitting the street with 30 rounds of 38 Special 110 grain JHP +P in those days (early 1980s) was considered over-aggressive by the Captain I worked for at the time. That pogue is likely spinning in his grave, knowing that our deputies now go about with at least 3 and often 5 high-capacity magazines in their Glock 40 S&Ws and 45 ACPs. People like that jerk are why I am glad to be retired.

We never had options like that. You had loop loaders and that was that. I knew one guy that had an 18 round loop setup instead of an issue 12 round. I think he got away with it only because he was one mother of an intimidating looking sob. He could have played an Aryan looking SS officer in any movie, only his eyes were a spooky cold light blue that freaked a lot of people out. Helped being the old economy size Trooper at about 6'4" or more and just radiating an "I'll rip your head off and crap down your neck hole." type of vibe. In reality he was the nicest guy in the world once you got to know him. Anyway, that was as far as "non division issue" got back in the day. I was actually part of the In Service class that convinced our then Superintendent that a second cuff case on the belt shouldn't be grounds for charges and lost vacation time. We had one set of issue cuffs- period. They also issued everyone 2 "Flex Cuffs" that were just glorified heavy duty zip ties. They were generally carried in the crown of the Stetson. The Super opined that the flex cuffs served as additional cuffs and that none were needed on the belt. Someone in the rear of the room might have said something along the lines of, "The flex cuffs ain't worth a s..t when the bad guy knocks your f'in Stetson off your head and down the hill while you're wrasslin' with him." That same some might also have suddenly realized what he just said, and to whom he had said it to, and he might have seen visions of himself explaining to his wife how he got fired, but the Super took it in stride and nothing was said about the language or tone. Other members with their brain in gear ahead of their mouth bolstered the argument made while "someone" darn near crapped in his pants. (Fortunately I had spare skivvies back in my room! ) The Super later approved a second member provided cuff case, so I guess my mouth running away with itself did some good for once. About a year later I passed the Super in the hall of the Academy and he did a double take, smiled and said, " I thought you were going to crawl under the table after your "ain't worth a s..t" comment Trooper. Your face was as red as a beet." I stammered through some sort of lame apology and he waved it off with laugh and went down the hall. What's that Saints name that looks after fools?

 

[RicinYakima]

Yep, one level up from minimum competence.

 

[358156 hp]

Yep, one level up from minimum competence.

Yup, the "Peter Principle"
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/Peter-principle.html

 

[RicinYakima]

Long Rant, ignore if you wish!

I have always found it very interesting that those of my generation, early Baby Boomers, went to the public safety. I spent 1970 through 2015 with LE, FF and EMT/Medics. Surprisingly most were combat arms, but not straight leg infantry; mostly artillery, combat engineers and armor. We had the "strike" groups of Special Forces and Ranger and AF para-jumpers, but not the USMC grunts, except for a couple of Recon guys.

The folks that went to the command and control positions were the college grad fraternity boys that evaded the draft and did not enlist. Since City managers and State department directors were also of the "Frat Boy" group, they promoted those they could understand. It was not all bad! They could deal with all the political s**t of the 1970's. The line troops and company commander did the best we could for our "citizens" and let the rest float.

The best thing that ever happened to me was to be passed over for a Chief position. The poor guy that was promoted had three years of crap and then was fired. The City Manager then hired a political hack from California, who quit and left a ten year fiscal mess. It has taken 20 years, three City Managers, to finally promote at local individual to Chief and solve union and fiscal problems.

There is always a big advantage to hire the top guy from the local community.

 

[Bret4207]

When I was growing up there was a family just down the road from us. The father was a 1st generation German immigrant that got in ahead of WW2 I believe. Mom was a Long Island Princess. How they got together I don't know. He was a cabinet maker/carpenter, she was way out of his league socially. I used to listen to her speak of people being "groomed" for a position. In her mind some people were born to run the world and some were born to work for the others. I think she attended a prestigious girls college, belonged to the "right" sorority, went to the right parties, etc. It was just how things were done. It seems that nothing has really changed, at least in my experience. We see the same type of people, usually of a certain class, being groomed for and being elevated to a position that they may be wholly unsuited for in reality. The system generally covers for them until they really blow it, and then the system either throws them under the bus or hides them where no one can see them. I saw this a number of times on my former job, where someone with a lot of education, who played his cards right, who kissed the right rings, etc finally got to a command position and then found out that leading men was a whole heck of a lot different than pushing paper! Most of them failed miserably, but the system slid them over into a better paying job pushing more paper.

The more things change, the more they stay the same?

 

[RBHarter]

With my last employer we had an expression .
The more you screw up the higher you go . It seemed like they would promote the clumsy and graceless just to keep them from hurting themselves . While I'm certain that is just "sour grapes" I'm also certain that it's not entirely false .

 

[Bret4207]

IME, as long as they had the right letters after their names, earned at the "right " college or university, the sky was the limit no matter how bad they were at their job. We had 2 females with the letters from the right places that turned our Academy into a freakin' romper room suitable for 4 year olds. Come to think on it, they may have invented the whole "over sensitive, everyone is a winner, millennial cry baby" movement!

 

[Ian]

"over sensitive, everyone is a winner, millennial cry baby"

"triggered", "PC", and "entitled" too, probably. It's tragic but the way you put that made me laugh. It also reminds me of all the farm boys who as Marines in training thought boot camp was a vacation with gourmet food and plenty of rest.

 

[Bret4207]

Ian, in the case I speak of it all started when one of the lasses, the daughter of a retired Trooper who had a rep as a piece of crap at best and cowardly backstabber at worst, got into the Academy after spending years at a local liberal arts college. She got yelled at, they made her run and climb ropes and do push ups and stand up straight and she didn't get anywhere near enough sleep. I rode nights with her. I heard all about how wrong that style of training was. You can guess how handy she was in breaking up domestics or fights at the local gin mill between loggers. Somehow she and her clone got assigned as training officers at the Academy some years after I transferred out of that station. I was hearing about the Dynamic Duo within a month of their hitting the carpeted halls down there. IIRC this was aobut the time we started forming what would be an "HR" type dept in a business. That section was run a by another lass that, as other female Troopers told me, "You didn't undress in front of her in the locker room- ever!" The Dynamic Duo got together with Zena the Warrior Prince..ess, and then things just went all to heck. I'm told that these days Senior Troopers can't even call a boot Trooper a dumb mf'er without getting brought up on charges, even if what the boot did qualifies entirely. The whole world is screwy IMO.

 

[462]

Too, look what PC has done to drill instructors. MSgt. Prokop was in our faces questioning our mothers' moral characters, all with a bit of hands-on and in language that would make a sailor cringe.

As my high school drafting teacher often said: "That was back when men were men and women were proud of it."

 

[Ian]

That was back when men were men and women were proud of it.

Best quote of the 20th century right there.

 

[462]

He also said, again, quite often, while looking me straight in the eye: "You're an outstanding student, and if you don't watch it you'll be out standing in the hall."

 

[RicinYakima]

You had a hall? We didn't have a hall in "tiger land" at Ft. Polk, LA in 1967. Feet in the bayou, rain on your head and alligators at your butt. The sign over the entrance to the camp was: Be proud! You have been selected to go to Viet Nam!

 

[oscarflytyer]

Times, HOW they HAVE changed! And NOT for the better, imho...

 

[462]

No, Ric, my high school drafting said that.

However, I suspect that my DI, MSgt Prokop, knew I was headed for Viet Nam, after I selected weapons mechanic as my "job" of choice. Then after 6 months of F-100, F-105 and F-4 schooling and another 6 months at my first duty station, I said the heck with waiting and volunteered to go to Viet Nam.