The 350 Legend
- Thread starter CZ93X62
- Start date
F
freebullet
Guest
Me too, on choosing. Dates back to when there weren't many deer around. Lots of odd hunting laws abound. Like a maze, somewhat like guns laws, takes seemingly forever to change them.
Tom
Well-Known Member
Gary, I'm using starline 223 basic brass. They're 1.8" long and cylindrical. I cut them to 1.605 and use a lyman 357 m die to help seating bullets. I'm reloading using 357 max dies. Some of the guys were necking 223 brass up in steps with a couple annealings. Since starline started selling basic brass before I got into it, I opted to skip the necking up process. 357 max book data doesn't get enough pressure to operate an ar15, you have to get 45k psi or better.
Also, they get fire formed from .373 diameter to .379-.380.
Also, they get fire formed from .373 diameter to .379-.380.
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IIRC, Ia was shotgun only for deer until the straight wall change. From the Ia hunters I know, it was a lethal range thing (slug gun). Doesn't really make a lot of sense as there are many straight wall big bore around, except for AR. $wise it does make sense for Rem., not much expense to make bolt guns. The big advantage IMHO is recoil! Claim 30/30 performance with much less recoil. Better accuracy than a slug gun. And it's propietary (like 300 whisper) so they get the business. Cost to them is minimal, new barrel, basic 223 brass and some powder & bullets. Would be much cheaper to make downloaded 45/70 (& others) but that would fit in existing rifles. With the Dems. wanting to eliminate semi-auto, the AR part is kinda on the back burner. Management may not do what we want but that doesn't mean they are dumb. Ia does have a wild pig problem so an AR would make sense but you could go deer/pig hunting in season with the 350.
fiver
Well-Known Member
I remember when they opened it.
there was all kinds of discussion about the case length restriction.
guy's were making 45/70 specials and all kinds of odd stuff to get their rifles to pass the field inspection.
I even wrote a letter to Marlin pointing out that would be the perfect time to bring out their 336 chambered for the Super mag rounds since they fit the criteria perfectly.
the rounds already fed through their rifles so only minor modifications would be necessary to be up and running.
I never even got a reply.
there was all kinds of discussion about the case length restriction.
guy's were making 45/70 specials and all kinds of odd stuff to get their rifles to pass the field inspection.
I even wrote a letter to Marlin pointing out that would be the perfect time to bring out their 336 chambered for the Super mag rounds since they fit the criteria perfectly.
the rounds already fed through their rifles so only minor modifications would be necessary to be up and running.
I never even got a reply.
A bit more info here :
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2019/1/22/first-look-winchester-350-legend-cartridge/
Here is a video, seems to make a pretty good facsimile of the 357 Max. for a bolt action or AR rifle :
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2019/1/22/first-look-winchester-350-legend-cartridge/
Here is a video, seems to make a pretty good facsimile of the 357 Max. for a bolt action or AR rifle :
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I guess they are so knowledgeable that they don't need shooters and bullet casters ideas on any subject.
Ben
Ian
Notorious member
Read the comments, someone already called the re-intro of the .351 Winchester auto....LOL!
"...fastest straight-walled cartridge in the world" ??? The .45 Raptor can eek out over 2800 fps from a 200-grain bullet. Marketing wank cracks me up. Still, the "Legend" might be a welcome mid-size cartridge if they can get it to work in an AR. I just don't see it doing much or lasting outside of that. A 'Tender in .35 Remington will smoke it with heavier bullets and less pressure, and just about any short-action bolt rifle will easily handle the .358 Winchester.
The thing that kinda turns me on to the Legend is the the Mossberg MVP and other AR-15-mag bolt rifles, barrel swap and voila! heavy hitter.
"...fastest straight-walled cartridge in the world" ??? The .45 Raptor can eek out over 2800 fps from a 200-grain bullet. Marketing wank cracks me up. Still, the "Legend" might be a welcome mid-size cartridge if they can get it to work in an AR. I just don't see it doing much or lasting outside of that. A 'Tender in .35 Remington will smoke it with heavier bullets and less pressure, and just about any short-action bolt rifle will easily handle the .358 Winchester.
The thing that kinda turns me on to the Legend is the the Mossberg MVP and other AR-15-mag bolt rifles, barrel swap and voila! heavy hitter.
Urny
Missouri Ozarks, heart still in the Ruby Mountains
Well, I already have a Remington 141 in .35 Remington, so I guess this one will get a pass. Maybe the Handi should become a .40-65 some day.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I would guess, that they want the annealing to include the neck and shoulder both. Gotta stay
away from the head, or you will make the case unable to withstand pressure where it is poorly
supported at the back. Getting the shoulder opened up without destroying the case might take
a couple of steps, like .25 cal then 7mm, then 30 or maybe from 7mm to .357 expander.
I was vaguely familiar with the .351 Win, and the semiauto rifles that fired it, but not to up on the
ballsticss.
From Wikipedia, not necessarily an entirely reliable source:
Most commercially available loads for the .351 SL launched a 180 grain .351 caliber bullet at between 1850 and 1925 fps from a 20-inch barrel
That is nibbling on the .35 Rem, and nobody ever had a problem killing a deer with that cartridge, at least
that I ever heard of. An AR shooting that ought to be a fine deer killer out to about 150 or even 200 yds. which
will account for about 80-90% of all deer shot in the USA, I would guess.
Bill
away from the head, or you will make the case unable to withstand pressure where it is poorly
supported at the back. Getting the shoulder opened up without destroying the case might take
a couple of steps, like .25 cal then 7mm, then 30 or maybe from 7mm to .357 expander.
I was vaguely familiar with the .351 Win, and the semiauto rifles that fired it, but not to up on the
ballsticss.
From Wikipedia, not necessarily an entirely reliable source:
Most commercially available loads for the .351 SL launched a 180 grain .351 caliber bullet at between 1850 and 1925 fps from a 20-inch barrel
That is nibbling on the .35 Rem, and nobody ever had a problem killing a deer with that cartridge, at least
that I ever heard of. An AR shooting that ought to be a fine deer killer out to about 150 or even 200 yds. which
will account for about 80-90% of all deer shot in the USA, I would guess.
Bill
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
The cartridge might fly--if it runs in AR-15s and their 5.56 x 45 magazines. The 351 Winchester's downfall was not power--it was accuracy. I only know what I have read about that caliber. It became somewhat popular as a prison guard rifle. Both the 35 Remington and 358 Winchester out-class it considerably--so it better run in gas guns, or it will be an NFL player--Not For Long.
Just searching for 357 Max information over several years, I recall numerous people having tossed out the idea of a "rimless 357 Max" using 223/5.56 brass. At some point in the distant past, I have had on my bench both "357x223" and "44x30-06" dummy cartridges I cobbled together just for the sake of curiosity and conversation. My dad, not to be outdone, turned huge solid copper "bullets" to seat in brass 12 gauge shells for the same reason.
The idea of this "new" cartridge is definitely not really new, but it is interesting.
Useful, if it has similar ballistics to the 357 Maximum. With many states using the "straight-wall cartridge" criterion, it's a viable new cartridge.
I don't find it strictly necessary since I already have a 357 Max, which has a rim and my chosen arm tends to appreciate a rim (TC Contender).
It can be (theoretically) chambered in an AR. I've read that feeding was the snag for at least one person who actually tried this as a wildcat. Sorry, I don't even remember where I read it since I've been dismissive of the idea for a long time. Myself, I got a lifetime supply of AR fix in the Army and really have absolutely no desire at all to ever own one so I'll never have to worry about feeding problems, real or imagined.
Bolt-action? Sure, even though the 35 Remington is "better," it'd have to be a straight-wall for me to hunt deer with it, so if I insisted upon a bolt-action, I guess this would cover that base.
I'm happy to see a new straight-wall alternative, but I don't need it myself.
As a petty aside, I absolutely hate the name. Give something a name like that, and it doesn't live up to it, the flop factor is exponential. I'm just sick to death of stupid catchy names. and it may turn me away from a product I might otherwise benefit from, but it repulses me. Like I said, that part's petty. I like the 300 BLK but hate the name on that too.
The idea of this "new" cartridge is definitely not really new, but it is interesting.
Useful, if it has similar ballistics to the 357 Maximum. With many states using the "straight-wall cartridge" criterion, it's a viable new cartridge.
I don't find it strictly necessary since I already have a 357 Max, which has a rim and my chosen arm tends to appreciate a rim (TC Contender).
It can be (theoretically) chambered in an AR. I've read that feeding was the snag for at least one person who actually tried this as a wildcat. Sorry, I don't even remember where I read it since I've been dismissive of the idea for a long time. Myself, I got a lifetime supply of AR fix in the Army and really have absolutely no desire at all to ever own one so I'll never have to worry about feeding problems, real or imagined.
Bolt-action? Sure, even though the 35 Remington is "better," it'd have to be a straight-wall for me to hunt deer with it, so if I insisted upon a bolt-action, I guess this would cover that base.
I'm happy to see a new straight-wall alternative, but I don't need it myself.
As a petty aside, I absolutely hate the name. Give something a name like that, and it doesn't live up to it, the flop factor is exponential. I'm just sick to death of stupid catchy names. and it may turn me away from a product I might otherwise benefit from, but it repulses me. Like I said, that part's petty. I like the 300 BLK but hate the name on that too.
RBHarter
West Central AR
I did a sampling of hunting regs from all over a couple of yr ago . Maine names the 25 ACP as minimum for deer . Alabama allows a hafted spear . For big game Nevada requires a 22 or greater cal with a 2" minimum OAL that retains 1000 ftlb or more at 100 yd . Pistols are required to be 24 cal or larger with a minimum case length of that of the Rem 44 magnum . Diverse to say the least .
Legion ....... A story , tale , or retelling of an event based in truth embellished with grand and colorful language . See myth , tall tales , fiction .
Just saying if the shoe fits ........
I have the 35/38 pretty well covered so I don't think this will be a thing for me .
There's a recent Russo 9×39 , 250 gr @ 1050 . I imagine a 80-95 gr would go 25-2600 without too much fuss . Straighten the case a little ....... 357 Herret ...... Don't even need a bolt to change an AR if you use 22 Nosler cases vs 6.8 which shares the 25,30,32 Rem head . Meanwhile the x39 shares with 35 Rem , Carcano , and 38/357 .
Eventually a 7×6.8 in a Carcano will become a 7-30 Waters I can use 35 Rem in and neck size with a 7-08 sizer ........ (After thought for clearity the head area is already fat so it's likely the 35 Rem brass will go .)
Having a 38/357 , 380 , 9mm , and 358 I don't see it in my stable.
Next thing you know they will be lopping the shoulder off 30 Rem for a 401 or 408 critter getter and subs up to 400 gr and call it something clever like the 401 Super X Mag ........ Sort of a hopped up 401 WSL or stretched 10 mm .......
Legion ....... A story , tale , or retelling of an event based in truth embellished with grand and colorful language . See myth , tall tales , fiction .
Just saying if the shoe fits ........
I have the 35/38 pretty well covered so I don't think this will be a thing for me .
There's a recent Russo 9×39 , 250 gr @ 1050 . I imagine a 80-95 gr would go 25-2600 without too much fuss . Straighten the case a little ....... 357 Herret ...... Don't even need a bolt to change an AR if you use 22 Nosler cases vs 6.8 which shares the 25,30,32 Rem head . Meanwhile the x39 shares with 35 Rem , Carcano , and 38/357 .
Eventually a 7×6.8 in a Carcano will become a 7-30 Waters I can use 35 Rem in and neck size with a 7-08 sizer ........ (After thought for clearity the head area is already fat so it's likely the 35 Rem brass will go .)
Having a 38/357 , 380 , 9mm , and 358 I don't see it in my stable.
Next thing you know they will be lopping the shoulder off 30 Rem for a 401 or 408 critter getter and subs up to 400 gr and call it something clever like the 401 Super X Mag ........ Sort of a hopped up 401 WSL or stretched 10 mm .......
