Wanted a Rolling Block for Over 50 Years, and Now,...

[Jeff H]

I HAVE ONE!
I have no clue what I have, but this was just given to me. All I have so far are a few pics, no measurements, but the bore has some rifling and is a "forty-something." Same guy has a 7x57 he has shot and loves it.

I have a houseful of people, so won't be able to measure things or do any cleaning today, but if anyone has any idea what this might be, I'd be very appreciative of any input.

I know this isn't much to work from, but I thought maybe the markings, which are sparse, might give a general clue as to where it was intended to be sent when it was made.

 

[Missionary]

Remington only offered every caliber any client desired so guessing is tough.
But your's looks like that feller had it in 1916 and was probably guarding some area not on the front.
We have been shooting Rollers for over 40 years and have never regreted any we bought.

 

[oscarflytyer]

Picture of the barrel "bridge" directly in front of the action? Is it octagon with a round bbl?

40 something could be a few, but possibly a 43 Spanish. Post some pics, or send me a pm and will try to help ID. And if it IS a 43 Spanish, I can point you in the right direction for supplies.

 

[Jeff H]

Thanks for the input @Missionary and @oscarflytyer !

The receiver is round on top, round tapered barrel, 34 3/4" from muzzle to breech. The bore wasn't very dirty at all, and you can see rifling, but I can't feel it at all at the muzzle. I have a few more pics to share now that I popped the handguard off. I have been sneaking out and messing with it as I get a chance, but can't neglect my visitors too much.

I was sorely tempted to slug that bore, but can't find a danged dowel rod long enough in the shop! My 50 cal muzzle-loader has a 3/8" diameter solid brass ram rod, but I still don't think it's log enough either.

 

[oscarflytyer]

bore slug should tell

 

[Jeff H]

bore slug should tell

LOL! I have a plastic jelly jare of 44 and 35 caliber bullets cast up in pure lead just for that purpose, so I decided that if it's a 43-something, it might be close. I went to see if I could start to fit the round nose into the muzzle and I dropped the bullet. It fell freely all the way out the breech!

I'm going to have to dig out some .447" and .495" round balls for this. I need to look up the specs on the 43s. The markings are making me think "Egyptian," but the marking are very sparse - just the one on the barrel, which looks a lot like it was installed in the white, as it's in the white under the wood - never blued. May even be a replacement, but the interior is very brown, but not pitted.

It has a rather large firing pin, so I'm thinking it was a black powder version.

Regardless, even if I never fire it, I'll enjoy it as a wall-hanger. I've always considered the military RBs to be one of the most aesthetically pleasing rifles to look at. It is so long and slender.

I'll keep digging and report back with any information.

 

[Bret4207]

I'm depending on my memory, always an iffy thing, but I think the "EP" is a common British proof mark and since Britian controlled Egypt for quite a long period a 43 Egyptian is certainly possible.

 

[Jeff H]

I'm depending on my memory, always an iffy thing, but I think the "EP" is a common British proof mark and since Britian controlled Egypt for quite a long period a 43 Egyptian is certainly possible.

I think your memory is spot on!

From what few markings there are, it's Egyptian. From what crude measurements I've been able to make so far, it's chambered for the 43 Egyptian, and brass is like $8 a pop! Aside from buggered screws and the slight, visible vestige of rifling, no rear sight and no front sight, it's in pretty good shape. Inside, the action is grungy but in very good shape and it feels "tight." Don't have or know specs or tests to determine if it's as tight as it should be, but nothing rattles and nothing wiggles too much. Ran one patch down the ore and it felt very slick, hardly any dirt and no rust came out on the patch. Scrubbed a little, soaked a little, patches come out clean.

Being a No 1, black-powder, I suppose it would be a candidate for a rebarrel, but that's a chunk I don't think I'd put into it. Rebore is out because the rim diameter is HUGE compared to any of the more common BP cartridges we can still get or make brass for here.

I still like it and will get it cleaned up and hang it somewhere. I've always loved the lines of these rifles. Handling it does make me want to tote it into the woods and shoot a deer with it though. It "feels" very light with its length and slenderness. I haven't gotten a decent photo because it's so long that I have to stand too far back to get the whole thing in the photo! Danged thing's like a Swiss pike! I imagine you could have pole-vaulted trenches with the two-foot long bayonets they used to put on these things.

Thanks for the info/validation on my uneducated determination. Always good to get extra brain cells on a "project." I'm sort of fascinated now and will continue to dig. Wish I'd gone through that wooden barrel in a gun store in Detroit in '68 or '69(?) and scrounged a shooter. I was a kid and commented on how cool they were and my dad and the proprietor both looked at me like I'd told them I'd like to go dress-shopping.

 

[Ian]

Jeff, you have a PM...

 

[Jeff H]

Got it - replied.

Thank you!

 

[Bret4207]

I have a #1 that I believe is in 43 Spanish. I don't know about your rifle but on mine the trigger pull is up in the 15-20 pound area, maybe more! My barrel isn't horrible, but the trigger pull is simply not something anyone could "squeeze", not with one finger anyway! If I ever get around to it and get some brass, bullets and dies, I think I'll be pulling the action apart to see if there's anything at all that can be done with it. A 7x57 Rolling Block I used as a kid also had an atrocious trigger pull, but nothing like this thing. Oddly, I have a little #4 RB that has a pretty decent trigger breaking in the 5 lbs area. Not bad for a "Boys Rifle"!

 

[Jeff H]

"......I don't know about your rifle but on mine the trigger pull is up in the 15-20 pound area,....."

Quite the opposite on this one, @Bret4207 ! It is lighter than I am comfortable with, no creep, no grit.

The interface surfaces look good though. I expected to find a mere trace of a sear ledge and worn, rounder parts, but they look good. I will go through it more thoroughly and be very sure it won't push off of bump off before I put a round in it though.

Most of the dark brown build-up, which I took for rust is actually petrified GUNK. I have Ed Harris working on it vicariously though his "home-mix" as I type. All the screws have backed out nicely and the threads look good. Breech-block and hammer pins pushed out without pounding. Firing pin and spring both look good, extractor is in perfect condition. The wear seems to be all in the bore and on the outside. I guess you drag a piece of metal around in the arid desert long enough, the cumulative effect will be to "soften" all the edges, which is what appears to have happened.

I have discovered what looks like a SN on the side of the bottom tang, and another different one on the trigger group. The fit of the trigger groiup in the receiver was pretty impressive and all the components look really good AND unmolested. Butt stock appears to be beech and the forearm walnut. No markings on either or their hardware.

 

[Bret4207]

Lucky dog!

 

[Mowgli Terry]

The military trigger pull kinda explains the number of original RB sporters with set triggers.

 

[Jeff H]

The military trigger pull kinda explains the number of original RB sporters with set triggers.

Looking at this marvelously simple design, the trigger nose directly engages the sear notch on the MASSIVE hammer, which is driven by what appears to be a section of a leaf spring from a quarry wagon. Not an uncommon design in those days, but figure the mass of that hammer contributing to a LOT of inertia to overcome, hence the beefy hammer spring. If the geometry were perfect, and the mating surfaces were perfect, it would still be pretty stiff, but COULD be much better with some time and attention.

These being military arms, relatively inexpensive to produce in large numbers, I figure they erred in favor of keeping conscripts from ventilating each others' skulls while diving for cover.

As @Bret4207 so aptly put it - "lucky dog" is about right, because, aside form outright wear - to dangerous degrees - I doubt any of these got much time and attention if a scared Infantryman could manage to trip that trap.

I have yet to determine if the breech block and hammer are forged and heat treated or case-hardened soft9ish) iron, but the engagement surfaces look very good on mine. I really expected them to look like those on a H&R Huntsman in 58 cal I once owned. Someone did a "trigger job" on that one and, over time, it just got smoother and lighter - and scarier.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Not all blackpowder rollers were neglected and abused to death. Many of the Danish 1867's that we imported had excellent bores and are good shooters. Those guns are an exception. Some of the guns from Argentina were very nice.

 

[richhodg66]

I've always liked rolling blocks as well. Always seemed strange that America exported those all over while arming our troops with Trapdoors. The rolling block is a much better action.

 

[RicinYakima]

Springfield Armory made a run of RB 50/70’s just post-civil war. It came down to the money as always. Trapdoors are about 80% muskets and they had thousands of new parts left over plus all the machinery. They would have had to pay Remington royalties to make rolling blocks.

 

[Jeff H]

Not all blackpowder rollers were neglected and abused to death. Many of the Danish 1867's that we imported had excellent bores and are good shooters. Those guns are an exception. Some of the guns from Argentina were very nice.

Yeah, like a bunch of other things, I missed that boat too. Had the opportunity, but took their availability for granted. Same with the Husky bolt-actions in 9.3mm.

 

[Jeff H]

Springfield Armory made a run of RB 50/70’s just post-civil war. It came down to the money as always. Trapdoors are about 80% muskets and they had thousands of new parts left over plus all the machinery. They would have had to pay Remington royalties to make rolling blocks.

The government had a "bird in the hand" with the Springfield and the arsenals, probably many leftover front-stuffers to convert as well.

It IS a shame that such an innovation in arms was not exploited more in its home nation, but money was tight.