Wanted a Rolling Block for Over 50 Years, and Now,...

[Snakeoil]

RB's have dominated the BPCR firing line at Wilton for as long as I have been a member and long before that. They are still on the line today, but many have switched over to smaller .30 cal rifles and smokeless powders. Many, if not most of the rifles will built by Charlie Norton using Douglas Supreme barrels. Caliber of choice when BPCR was big at Wilton was .38-55. Lot's of older guys not wanting to deal with the recoil of a .45 or bigger BPC. And those .38's never failed to knock down the rams at 500 yds.

I shot with Eric Matthews (Paul's nephew) several times. Eric is built like a truck and shot a .50-90 RB. That round would push him back every time. He said he never wanted to hit a target and not have it go down. Hell, I think he probably knocked a few over with the air that slug displaced.

 

[Jeff H]

@Snakeoil , I'd love to build one on the 38-55, or 40-65, something not as "heavy" as a 45. I think these guns are just amazing and wish I'd started looking for one a long time ago. I gave up too soon, and it's too late to add another project of that significance to my habit.

Given that this one was given to me, I'll enjoy just handling it, but will keep an eye out for ways to shoot it. I checked at McGowan, and they will rebarrel a Mauser for $200, but want $500 to do a RB! That doesn't include the barrel! Dies for the 43 Egyptian are $250. We'll ssee how this pans out.

I intend to do a chamber cast on this, but have to wait until I need to order something else to get enough Cerrosafe to fill the cavernous chamber.

I couldn't find any round balls for the Old Army to push through this, so I roll-swaged a couple .495" round-balls to .460" and drove those through the bore. You can SEE the rifling on the slug, and you can sort of FEEL the rifling on the slug with a fingernail, but they are faint traces at best.

Best I can determine is that the the groove diameter is .439" to .440". I need to find a definite reference to what it should be, so I know just where I am on it.

This will be a long, drawn out process, as I have a lot of soaking to do yet and some scrubbing. I'm tickled that the firing pin spring wasn't broken and I can get a good measurement on it in case it does break later.I'm having fun just marveling over having one in-hand and personally feeling and seeing the parts inside. I studied the internals through books as a kid, but never got to take one apart until now.

 

[Bret4207]

Probably the best bet for me would be to sell the RB I have and put the $$$ towards the CPA Stevens 44 1/2 I really want. It'll never happen though, that RB hung over the mirror in my folks bar for 30 some years...

 

[RicinYakima]

Consider checking at Track of the Wolf for dies and brass.

 

[Snakeoil]

Have never shot a .43 Egyptian, but if it is any like a .43 Spanish it will not be a pleasant experience.

The RB has two shortcomings. First, there is no gas vent in the event of a case rupture. Only gas vent is thru the firing pin hole and into your kisser. The other is if you go crazy with putting a light trigger in the gun, they have been known to fire when you close the rolling block. We had a guy at the club do this in his basement. .45-75 with black powder round. He chambers it in the basement to make sure it will fit. Closes the RB and it fires. Slug hits the bench grinder on the other side of his basement and destroys it. I can only imagine the smoke in the basement. The best part is he was dumb enough to come to the club and tell others what he did. At the next match, there was this new target at 500 yds. It was not very big. Put my spotting scope on it and it is a bench grinder someone cut out of steel plate with a torch. When he saw it, he packed up his stuff and he never came back to the club. True story. Can't make stuff like that up.

 

[Jeff H]

Consider checking at Track of the Wolf for dies and brass.

Thanks, Rick. They came up in a search for ID information, so I'll book-mark their site in case they have something I might need. I"ve done some muzzle-loading shopping there.

If Lee had ever made a Lee Loader set for this, that would be ideal, even if someone was asking $75 for it. Right now, I am passively "shopping" for the peripherals. May buy a screw or three though.

I found the outlines of where the front sight an bayonet lug were. The look as if they were actually inletted and soldered, bot no solder line shows, just a contrast in steel coloration. Whoever removed these two items finished them so flush that they were invisible under a very, very faint "browning" of the barrel.

This "patina" (more like gunk-film than rust) was so thin, in fact, that light wiping with 0000 steel wool removed most of it. This was not the intent, but there it is. It's almost as if someone had this chucked up in a lathe and (almost) polished it at some point, as the barrel had me wondering if it were a replacement at some point. The appearance of the bore and outlines of the front sight and bayonet lug indicate it's original.

The ONLY thing not coming loose is the pin that holds the lever that holds the breech block shut. I won't beat on it too hard or it will upset into what clearance there is between the lever and the trigger guard. If I have to drill it out, it won't be a big deal. Plenty of old steel bread pans full of old, rusty twist drills at the flea market to make pins from.

The springs surprised me. There are rough, sheared edges and are not too nicely finished on the faces. ANY score marks on flat springs make me nervous, but apparently, my fear of setting up stress risers in unfounded if these have lasted as long as they have.

I've drug enough dirt out of this thing that I might have hired a couple archeological under-grads to pass buckets out of the shop.

 

[Jeff H]

Have never shot a .43 Egyptian, but if it is any like a .43 Spanish it will not be a pleasant experience.

The RB has two shortcomings. First, there is no gas vent in the event of a case rupture. Only gas vent is thru the firing pin hole and into your kisser. The other is if you go crazy with putting a light trigger in the gun, they have been known to fire when you close the rolling block. We had a guy at the club do this in his basement. .45-75 with black powder round. He chambers it in the basement to make sure it will fit. Closes the RB and it fires. Slug hits the bench grinder on the other side of his basement and destroys it. I can only imagine the smoke in the basement. The best part is he was dumb enough to come to the club and tell others what he did. At the next match, there was this new target at 500 yds. It was not very big. Put my spotting scope on it and it is a bench grinder someone cut out of steel plate with a torch. When he saw it, he packed up his stuff and he never came back to the club. True story. Can't make stuff like that up.

Thank you for that!

The trigger on mine is light enough that once I get the gunk out of everything, this is something I WILL check. Wear marks indicate that the trigger nose if fully engaging on the sear and both are bright and smooth, but I never trust a trigger I don't know first-hand.

I think Paul Mauser lost an eye to inadequately vented gasses and was the impetus for his attention to the features on the 98s which beat the earlier models by quite a margin. I don't think cartridge brass was as good then as it is now, but they didn't have over a hundred years of mishaps to make that point. I will make sure I have good brass if I ever get that far with this piece.

Also, I'll make sure my bench grinder is safe.

 

[oscarflytyer]

Have never shot a .43 Egyptian, but if it is any like a .43 Spanish it will not be a pleasant experience.

Have to disagree with this. My 43 Spanish(s) shoot like creampuffs with my load. Almost too pleasant - and tweaking the load up a bit. THese are a hoot to shoot!

 

[oscarflytyer]

I'd love to build one on the 38-55,

Now that I am set up for 38-55, AND have an extra RB in 43 Spanish I am not particularly enamored of in that caliber (AND have a custom Swede RB in 45-70), an RB in 38-55 custom has seriously been on my 'white board!'

 

[Jeff H]

Have to disagree with this. My 43 Spanish(s) shoot like creampuffs with my load. Almost too pleasant - and tweaking the load up a bit. THese are a hoot to shoot!

I'm not too proud to admit that, after a serious neck injury at Fort Benning in '79, I am a Class-A recoil whimp.

If I ever do shoot this, it will definitely be with "creampuff" loads.

Regarding the 38-55,...

This is a cartridge I've always been fond of, but never owned. As a kid, I was taken by the mere aesthetic of it in Cartridges of the World, and saw thos ballistics as a datum, from which I measured or compared others. I like the idea of the basic case being related to (grandfather to) the 30/30. I like that it's a "straight-wall" case, that Starline makes brass for it, and that dies are common/inexpensive, that it uses less lead than a 45-70 and FITS INTO a CONTENDER. The ballistics are right up my alley. It even makes sense as a "superfluous" addition to my small personal battery without being too far "out there." I could stray a bit and not be in danger of getting too far lost in a rabbit hole again. I mean, what's one more mould in this day when we have access to suppliers who are more than happy to make US happy - at least in this one aspect of life/commerce?

A RB in 38-55? Man, 20 years ago, I'd have ordered a barrel and would have already called John Taylor and shopping for wood. Mr. Wommack has complete actions, ready to go (for what I'd do with this cartridge) and the bait would have been placed, the trap set,...

Slippery, slippery slop for me.

 

[Snakeoil]

Have to disagree with this. My 43 Spanish(s) shoot like creampuffs with my load. Almost too pleasant - and tweaking the load up a bit. THese are a hoot to shoot!

Well, yes, you can reduce the nastiness with reduced loads. An old friend of mine was a gunsmith and somehow acquired a .43 Spanish RB. The last foot of the barrel looked like a sewer pipe. So, he cut and recrowned it, loaded up some BP rounds and headed to the range. He fired the first shot and said he saw stars. Fired a couple more and lost interest. Another guy was there and asked him what it was. Gary asked him if he'd like to shoot it and the guy got all excited and said yes. Gary said the guy's hair all flew forward when he touched the round off. Gary asks, "Wanna shoot another round?" Guy looked up like he'd been punched and said, "No thanks.".

 

[oscarflytyer]

fair enough. I am shooting light loads

 

[Jeff H]

fair enough. I am shooting light loads

At about ten or eleven (?), the first "high-powered" rifle I shot was a 6.5 Carcano. Those long, slender RNs spoke to me and the short, handy carbine was just my size. The report and recoil wasn't even worthy of notice. I fell in love, but the owner wouldn't part with it, even though he acted embarrassed to own it. Said his wife bought it for him and he couldn't sell it.

Then, I got my own 30/30 and handloaded 150 grain RNs and 110 grain Speer half-jackets for it and bruised myself up shooting over a large rock as a rest. Recoil and report was noticeable with the 150s, but fun.

Later, my dad drug home a pristine KAR 98 from a pawn shop one day, swabbed the bore (which sparkled to begin with), produced a box of Remington factory ammo for it (oh, the decadent luxury of it) and asked me if I'd like to take a whack at a dirt clod on the back-stop one hundred-plus yards from the porch. I didn't hesitate, and didn't think to stand on the PORCH, instead of on the first step down. When I let it go, it pushed me back and my calves were against the edge of the porch, so I as on my way DOWN.

Dad's, typically being a little smarter than their offspring, saw this coming and at about 45 degrees into my rearward trajectory, I felt his hand between my shoulder blades and he pushed me right straight back up to vertical. Got a good laugh out of both of us and I made sure to be careful of my stance ever since. That butt plate smarted through my tee-shirt, but it sealed the deal with me on the Mausers. Fell in love with those and never got over it.

Oh, and I HIT the dirt-clod with those crude sights and young eyes. The things dads do to kids that stick with them forever...

 

[Jeff H]

I don't know if I'll ever get to shoot this thing, but I'm determined to continue collecting information and what material may be convenient. It may end up being a couple years, but I've found that 32 gauge brass shot-shells can be converted to this brass. $40/25 cases. My immediate logic was "I'd have five cases to wreck figuring this out, and I'd still have a "box" of shells left." Hmmmm,....

I had to make brass scrapers, chisels and awls to dig the petrified gunk out of the action - mostly in the trigger group. Peened a little buggered screw-head metal back in place here and there, but under that crap, bunches and bunches of tool marks and clean metal. The gunk was as hard and tough as bedding compound and it was an amalgamation of whatever it was AND a substrate of what appeared to be cotton fibers. If a fella could wait 150 years, this mess would make a good action bedding compound. Most of it I took for thick rust scale or forging imperfections until it started to finally give way to reveal steel underneath.

I soaked and soaked in Ed's Red, removed a little layer each day, and ended up spraying some cheap WM "Spray Lube" on the stuff and it actually worked better on this particular hybrid of crud. This inside of the action looked extremely good, so this stuff must have provided some protection against the constant sand-blasting in its original homeland. Anyone wanting a carry-piece "melted," de-horned or otherwise made more snag-free - let an Egyptian soldier tote it in the desert for a hundred years and it'll be as smooth and somfy as you could ask for.

Now, as for that "light" trigger I thought I had,... not so much no more! Once I excavated the offending crud out of everything, that trigger is some kind of STIFF, but when it breaks, it breaks CLEAN. Most really heavy triggers I've had were like that, but I think I can shoot it if I get that far. I was warned, so not surprised.

The tang screw has a long, tapered shoulder, which is probably not going to be found at Ace, so I will have to weld shut the furrow where the screw slot once was and recut it. I've NEVER seen a screw head buggered that badly.

I have visitors to keep company this week, but I've been going out and fiddling with this a few minutes at a time. Next step is to clean up the wood/associated hardware.

 

[popper]

I remember those 43 Egyptian being advertised in the comic books of the 50s for cheap price but ammo was scarce. Or at lest I thought it was. Folks would never have let me buy one.
From an OLD ad, 43spanish 40$/1000 loaded!

 

[Ian]

Any chance that "cotton" is camel hair from being packed around on one?

 

[Jeff H]

Any chance that "cotton" is camel hair from being packed around on one?

LOL! I don't know much about camel hair, but if it looks like the little deposits of stuff I used to see in every little crevice in a former cotton mill from the 19th century, then it may well be!

It's pretty fine. Could be belly-button lint from the old, retired cop who had it sitting in a corner, behind his Lazy-Boy for fifty years too.

 

[Bret4207]

Gosh darn belly button lint! That stuff gets everywhere...

 

[300BLK]

Send it off to Bobby Hoyt in Fairfield Pa and have it RELINED to a small caliber with available brass. $200?

38-55 with blackpowder loads are powdepuff

 

[Snakeoil]

Another option is re-line to something like .30-30. Very accurate caliber. Easy to find brass. .30 cal bullet choices are endless and recoil is minimal. I was just at Hart Barrels today. Jim is rebarreling my shooting partner's Meacham High Wall in .30-30. It was a .40-65.

If you are not going to shoot knock-down silhouettes, I don't see the point of building a high recoil rifle. Recoil never bothered me. Was a competitive trap shooter for years. Shot a 530 gr Paul Jone Postell out of my Shiloh and never gave it a second thought. But now that I have gray hair, that massive recoil takes the fun out of going bang. So, if you plan to keep this rifle and don't have the mad money to change the caliber down the road, make it in caliber you'll still be able to shoot when you are wearing Depends to the range.