What do we know about shooting cast in extreme cold weather?
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
Chris
Well-Known Member
Interesting and hopeful. Would be great to try this in extereme cold, it may work really well. If it does it will get me powdercoating, I have been avoiding that like the plague.
Been assembling all my stuff here waiting for cold weather... some of you guys' special lubes are really sticky! We will soon find out what works.
Been assembling all my stuff here waiting for cold weather... some of you guys' special lubes are really sticky! We will soon find out what works.
Ian
Notorious member
Yup, soft and sticky, but not too sticky is the name of the game for a broad-range lube. Microwax makes for sticky. Paraffin tempers that a bit, but don't use too much. I think you're going to like the way JonB's lube shoots after your bores get seasoned with it.
Ben put just the right amount in Ben's Red by using JPW which is one of the reasons it works so well, but the formula might do better in the cold with a less tacky grease (too much polybutene in Lucas IMO).
Ben put just the right amount in Ben's Red by using JPW which is one of the reasons it works so well, but the formula might do better in the cold with a less tacky grease (too much polybutene in Lucas IMO).
Chris
Well-Known Member
Ian, what do you think Castor Wax would contribute to lube qualities? For instance, how would it replace or supplement a slickener such as Castor Oil or many others?
I just bought a bunch and am interested in how to fit this into a lube composed primarily of waxes with a softener. My interest of the moment is cold weather performance, and perhaps there is no place for it here? However, could it play an important role in a broad temperature range lube? You're good at explaining how things work... could you take this question on please?
I just bought a bunch and am interested in how to fit this into a lube composed primarily of waxes with a softener. My interest of the moment is cold weather performance, and perhaps there is no place for it here? However, could it play an important role in a broad temperature range lube? You're good at explaining how things work... could you take this question on please?
Ian
Notorious member
I've never used castor wax (hydrogenated castor oil), but it has been on the radar for several years. I really have no information about how it behaves as an individual ingredient, and it would need to be evaluated as an additive in a known base through the usual procedures of temp range, shot strings, etc. at different additive levels to see just exactly how it behaves. Our hope had been that it would be a little less finicky than castor oil and perhaps could be used at higher additive concentrations to have an effect on overall viscosity and not just be a trace modifier. Cetyl Esters NA is an ester wax that is known to be good in bullet lube at 5-10% concentrations if I remember right (Jeff from CBA/Voodoo lube knows the particulars) and the hope was that the castor wax might be similar.
I made a batch of Felix lube with castor wax instead of castor oil. Never got around to really giving it a go, it was just before I sold "the rifle". Kinda lost some interest in that debacle.
Cetyl Ester goes liquid at a very low temp. i think that could be a good thing in the right amount.
Cetyl Ester goes liquid at a very low temp. i think that could be a good thing in the right amount.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Oh yes, snow and southerners! Always a good laugh in those conditions. When I was stationed at Cherry Point NC we got a "major snow storm". Maybe 2.5" of snow. It was wild. People panicking, stores closing, shelters opening. You could tell the northern guys because to us it was business as usual. We were the ones driving out to town like it was a regular day while everyone else was creeping along with white knuckles on the steering wheel at 2mph. It was hilarious. Of course it didn't help that there in the state with more sand than all of NYS, they were spreading TOP SOIL on the roads! Not sand, not gravel, no- black dirt they'd piled up for landscaping projects. What a mess!
As far as flatlanders (in this case meaning those from well south of here- college kids, tourists, retirees, skiers) driving in snow in northern NY, yeah, always good for a laugh. It's either creeping long with t he 4 ways flashing at 2 mph or doing close to 70 in 4wd on those "all season radials" that look like the old hi milers of my youth. Both of them end up in the ditch, one just lands a lot father out in the swamp and gets hurt more. If I had a dollar for every accident like that I investigated...
Northerners in 100 F+ heat? Thats haying time. Nothing like being in a mow stacking idiot cubes at 102F and 100% humidity. But, we only get a few weeks of that, not a whole summer. These days I much prefer the heat to the cold, although I gotta admit that yesterdays sunshine and 15F temps (with no wind) in my woodlot cutting dead ironwood (the BEST firewood) was pretty darn nice! Next years woodpile is getting started!
Black ice...nasty stuff. Stopped the Troop car at an accident scene once near Indian Lake NY. Car slid off the road on a curve with quite a grade to it. Got out of the car and started walking towards the site and the people there started yelling at me to watch out. My Troop car was following me down the grade! That would have been a trickey one to explain to the Major if I hadn't got it stopped...
As far as flatlanders (in this case meaning those from well south of here- college kids, tourists, retirees, skiers) driving in snow in northern NY, yeah, always good for a laugh. It's either creeping long with t he 4 ways flashing at 2 mph or doing close to 70 in 4wd on those "all season radials" that look like the old hi milers of my youth. Both of them end up in the ditch, one just lands a lot father out in the swamp and gets hurt more. If I had a dollar for every accident like that I investigated...
Northerners in 100 F+ heat? Thats haying time. Nothing like being in a mow stacking idiot cubes at 102F and 100% humidity. But, we only get a few weeks of that, not a whole summer. These days I much prefer the heat to the cold, although I gotta admit that yesterdays sunshine and 15F temps (with no wind) in my woodlot cutting dead ironwood (the BEST firewood) was pretty darn nice! Next years woodpile is getting started!
Black ice...nasty stuff. Stopped the Troop car at an accident scene once near Indian Lake NY. Car slid off the road on a curve with quite a grade to it. Got out of the car and started walking towards the site and the people there started yelling at me to watch out. My Troop car was following me down the grade! That would have been a trickey one to explain to the Major if I hadn't got it stopped...
Rally Hess
Well-Known Member
Ian,
In 1980 my two oldest children, wife and I were stationed at Ft Hood ,Tx. We got there at around 2100 hrs in mid December. They had a snowfall of about 6". Every stoplight was flashing yellow and the town was completely closed down. We were looking for a motel room for the night and the owner thought we were crazy for being out in such weather. LOL The next morning my wife and kids built a small snowman in the parkinglot of the motel. My wife said people were looking out the windows at them like they were crazy.
In 1980 my two oldest children, wife and I were stationed at Ft Hood ,Tx. We got there at around 2100 hrs in mid December. They had a snowfall of about 6". Every stoplight was flashing yellow and the town was completely closed down. We were looking for a motel room for the night and the owner thought we were crazy for being out in such weather. LOL The next morning my wife and kids built a small snowman in the parkinglot of the motel. My wife said people were looking out the windows at them like they were crazy.
Paden
Active Member
+10 to -10 is pretty balmy, at least by our historical standards. Tho, the past few winters have seen the majority of our temps in that range, with periods of -20 to -40 or colder being short and infrequent. Currently it's only -8 here at my cabin (I just strolled outside with a headlamp in my birthday suit so I could accurately report that) and is predicted to warm up to about +10 again tomorrow. Apparently, record warm winters are becoming our "new normal". (It used to be that we would never say "negative" when speaking of the temperature, because during winter it was typically always in the negative range, so it went without saying. But for at least the past 4 years that doesn't hold true anymore, and our winters are continuing to get warmer).
I commonly target shoot the .45 Colt in that +10 to -10 range but don't have any hard data to offer. LCD screens and plastic parts don't like negative temps, and in winter I have to snowshoe about a half a mile into the site where I shoot so I've never chrony'd any loads in winter. It could be done, but thus far I haven't been compelled to go to the lengths necessary to set up and keep a chrony warm.
My just barely sub-sonic "Ruger only" load uses V-N110 lit by GM150M primers, and it performs well in the cold. In my revolvers soft LBT Blue seems to do pretty well down at those temps, and frankly I suspect quite a few others would as well. In the -20 to -40 range, 3 parts sweet yellow beeswax + 1 part Amsoil Saber Professional 2-cycle oil seems to perform quite well. At least I can offer that I get a normal lube star on the muzzle, zero leading, and the bullets go where I point them. Good enough for me. I can foresee this lube becoming my one lube fits all for Alaska temps year-round.
I've taken caribou and moose in sub-zero temps (probably down to around -40 or so) with rifle handloads, but not using cast. Wouldn't be inclined to shoot anything below -40, unless it was a matter of life and death. Coldest I've ever knowingly experienced has been -63...and you still need to go out and tend to animals and critical chores, no matter how cold, but otherwise below -50 I prefer to stay indoors and avoid unnecessary travel because things just start getting weird and stuff breaks more easily, and it's just not very pleasant.
My definitions:
+80 or hotter = "Africa Hot" (fairly rare here, thankfully)
+75 to +80 = "damn hot"
+45 to +75 = "summer"
+30 to +45 = "cool" (spring and fall temps)
+10 to +30 = extremely warm winter temps (T-shirt weather)
-10 to +10 = "warm" winter temps
-20 to -10 = cool (or "normal") winter temps
-40 to -20 = "cold" (you might actually want to put clothes on to go to the outhouse in the middle of the night, if it's going to more than a quick trip).
-40 and below = "damn cold" (It rarely gets damn cold anymore).
Seems like what's really needed is not an "extreme cold weather lube", but rather a lube for us normal people, which will work good from "cold" winter temps up to "damn hot" summer temps....and a lube that works in "Africa Hot" temps where all you crazy people live.
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Eutectic
Active Member
After many years in this cast bullet game I am convinced many things we think as good, maybe even necessary, are actually a 'carry over' from the black powder days of old.
"The lube star" Yes..... with black powder prominent and wet lube stars are good.... An indication fouling is soft.....
But what about smokeless powder? I suggest we are playing with a different tiger here; and when the mercury reads in double digit minus numbers that tiger is one of those extinct ones called the Saber Tooth!
Yes I look at the muzzle...... I study it on the surface and maybe 3/4" into the bore under 10x magnification even! My thoughts? You might get away with a big wet star in the "banana belt"........ but the Saber Tooth doesn't like it (or the C.O.R.E it leaves behind)
So I look for what I call a 'dust star'. It is almost dry with only the slightest trace of lube to hold it in place! I test lubes in a couple of barrels especially to 'read' the last 3/4". Here is where I have become fond of a couple percent of POE (ester) oil in my mix. I can actually see the machine marks in the barrel steel 'clean up' at 10x with small amounts of POE on board!
I find almost ALL jacketed loads cold start a small amount in double digit minus as well! You might not miss a moose or even a 200 yard coyote...... but you may not have that first one be 'minute of grouse eye' at 75 yards either!
Pete
"The lube star" Yes..... with black powder prominent and wet lube stars are good.... An indication fouling is soft.....
But what about smokeless powder? I suggest we are playing with a different tiger here; and when the mercury reads in double digit minus numbers that tiger is one of those extinct ones called the Saber Tooth!
Yes I look at the muzzle...... I study it on the surface and maybe 3/4" into the bore under 10x magnification even! My thoughts? You might get away with a big wet star in the "banana belt"........ but the Saber Tooth doesn't like it (or the C.O.R.E it leaves behind)
So I look for what I call a 'dust star'. It is almost dry with only the slightest trace of lube to hold it in place! I test lubes in a couple of barrels especially to 'read' the last 3/4". Here is where I have become fond of a couple percent of POE (ester) oil in my mix. I can actually see the machine marks in the barrel steel 'clean up' at 10x with small amounts of POE on board!
I find almost ALL jacketed loads cold start a small amount in double digit minus as well! You might not miss a moose or even a 200 yard coyote...... but you may not have that first one be 'minute of grouse eye' at 75 yards either!
Pete
F
freebullet
Guest
Better put another log on the fire there, maybe some coal to. While your at it fire up the waste oil burner. -52 is not something I'm envious of.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
One third of WA is west of the Cascade Mountain range and not only has the Pacific Ocean coast, but also Puget Sound. The Alaskan current is almost a steady 45 degrees and keep everything warm in winter and cool in summer. Two thirds of the state is east of the mountains and the same elevation western Montana. When the jet stream drops down to about northern OR, all the artic air from Canada flows down here into the desert and gets trapped. -22 is coldest I remember here in Yakima, but Spokane has been colder. All of this happens only once every few years, but this is one of those years!
Chris
Well-Known Member
Well I have prepared for the cold weather lube testing... guys have sent me many kinds of lube... and the weather just won't even get close to 0 degrees, let alone -20 or colder which is what I'm looking for. Crazy weather but easy on the woodpile.
I'll start the testing as soon as weather permits.
I'll start the testing as soon as weather permits.