What do we know about shooting cast in extreme cold weather?

[Chris]

Besides that it's uncomfortable.

Let's arbitrarily define cold as +10 and extreme cold as -10 and below. There's at least 2 variables in play here, powder and lube performance. There could well be other factors.

It's often said that some powders don't ignite well or perform variably in cold... 296 comes to mind. Thoughts?

Lubes?? Anyone test or have experience accuracy-wise in real cold? What are we looking for in terms of qualities and the ingredients that make it work?

I have hunted in cold for many years and shot some bucks down around zero. Never with cast, though. Also I have never conducted load development or shot groups much below 20 degrees.

Seems like studying this might lead to better understanding of how powders and lubes work in general.

 

[Ben]

Let's arbitrarily define cold as +10 and extreme cold as -10 and below.

I seriously doubt that I'll be outside shooting ANYTHING in that kind of weather.

Ben

 

[Chris]

Ben, Many are cold but few are frozen. You can do it.

 

[RicinYakima]

I can't help you either. I've shot coyotes down to zero from the lambing shed, but the rifle and ammo were probable in the 32+ range when I stepped outside to shoot. Sorry.

 

[RBHarter]

4756 , Steel and 800x aren't to bad from 30-0 Blue Dot will drop off 200 fps in an 1 1/16 oz 12 ga. 800x only looses about 50 , Steel drops about 75 . 4756 worked great down to about -5 maybe about -12 right at sunrise .

I used to shoot a lot of ducks on mornings that would have frozen the last ball off a brass monkey . I had ice forming on the keels of my decoys in running water 1 morning . I spent the whole afternoon fixing the broken anchor lines that froze and broke as I was picking up ..........I'm glad I'm over that now.

 

[Rick]

Hhmmm . . . Shooting at -10? I can't be any help either, I can say in all honesty that the thought has never occurred to me.

 

[Chris]

4756 , Steel and 800x aren't to bad from 30-0 Blue Dot will drop off 200 fps in an 1 1/16 oz 12 ga. 800x only looses about 50 , Steel drops about 75 . 4756 worked great down to about -5 maybe about -12 right at sunrise .

I used to shoot a lot of ducks on mornings that would have frozen the last ball off a brass monkey . I had ice forming on the keels of my decoys in running water 1 morning . I spent the whole afternoon fixing the broken anchor lines that froze and broke as I was picking up ..........I'm glad I'm over that now.

That is useful about velocity loss, thanks. Shot a lot of 12 gauge 21.5 Unique and 1 3/8 at snowshoes at varying temps probably down to -20. Never had chrono data but everything went bang.

Shooting ducks at those temps has got to be brutal.

 

[quicksylver]

Well I was going to ask if duck hunting counted ..but I guess it does....ducks are supper no matter what the temp is..or wind conditions..I have hunted them in near blizzard conditions...we don't hunt them with rifles so I guess I really don't have any thing to add...

 

[Chris]

Well I was going to ask if duck hunting counted ..but I guess it does....ducks are supper no matter what the temp is..or wind conditions..I have hunted them in near blizzard conditions...we don't hunt them with rifles so I guess I really don't have any thing to add...

Great time to share some chilly experience, we are an elite brotherhood! But I'm mostly curious about cast bullet lubes... have a funny feeling that there is a new normal at -10. I would like to know what works... just because.

I know there's a couple guys here that have forgotten more about lubes than I will ever know so I'm hoping they take an interest.

 

[Brad]

I shot my last deer at about -10°. Lube? Wasn't an issue, bullet was coated with Hi-tek. Gun went off, deer died. I got warm.
I try not to shoot outdoors when temps get much below 30, it stops being fun.

Some may call me a wuss but by damn I'm a warm wuss.

 

[RBHarter]

Never anything Chronyed but the loads quit working .

I would think mechanically that even a very soft lube would be hard by 0 . There is about 8000 points to consider , there would be as much change in demands of the lube from 30 to -10 as from 30-105 . Only the other way . Then you'd have to figure out the 5th shot dynamic of the bbl/chamber now being 25-50° warmer than ambient and the start temperatures .

 

[Brad]

I know of ONE guy who can answer most of these questions and he isn't a member here.

Pete

 

[freebullet]

Lube needs to flow and powder must be a consistent performer. In my limited tests VARGET has proven to be the best powder I've found for that purpose. Much info out there on powder temperature sensitivity issues and lube. I go shoot no matter what if it is my plan. Cold does not yet stop me.

Deer I shot last December with cast was flung from a sabot. Shot numerous at -10 but, mostly with jax.

 

[Chris]

Never anything Chronyed but the loads quit working .

I would think mechanically that even a very soft lube would be hard by 0 . There is about 8000 points to consider , there would be as much change in demands of the lube from 30 to -10 as from 30-105 . Only the other way . Then you'd have to figure out the 5th shot dynamic of the bbl/chamber now being 25-50° warmer than ambient and the start temperatures .

Yeah, well you are thinking like I'm thinking. A lot could be learned here. It is without doubt complicated. How best to design an experiment?

 

[Chris]

I know of ONE guy who can answer most of these questions and he isn't a member here.

Pete

Well give him a call. This is virgin territory, knowledge-wise.

 

[Brad]

Leave the rifle and ammo outside for an hour. Fire a single shot. Let the gun sit outside for another 5 min to cool totally back down. Repeat until you have a 5 or 10 shot group. This lets you see how that load does in extreme cold.
Repeat but fire the group quickly to see what happens as the barrel heats up.

Need at least 5 groups of each type to really know. Compare to similar groups fired in normal temps. Need chronograph data for each too.

 

[freebullet]

How best to design an experiment?

Make it warmer! sorry couldn't resist.

 

[Brad]

Well give him a call. This is virgin territory, knowledge-wise.

He has been invited. He doesn't go online much anymore. Ian, fiver, and I have all gleaned much from him. He actually shoots in these temps and has a good idea what works and what doesn't.

 

[Chris]

Lube needs to flow and powder must be a consistent performer. In my limited tests VARGET has proven to be the best powder I've found for that purpose. Much info out there on powder temperature sensitivity issues and lube. I go shoot no matter what if it is my plan. Cold does not yet stop me.

Deer I shot last December with cast was flung from a sabot. Shot numerous at -10 but, mostly with jax.

It has been said that 296/H110 does poorly in extreme cold, said best to switch to Blue Dot or similar if hunting Polar bears.

Also it is said that some powders continue to work ok if lit with a mag primer. There is a paucity of data, or even anecdotal evidence.

 

[Chris]

Leave the rifle and ammo outside for an hour. Fire a single shot. Let the gun sit outside for another 5 min to cool totally back down. Repeat until you have a 5 or 10 shot group. This lets you see how that load does in extreme cold.
Repeat but fire the group quickly to see what happens as the barrel heats up.

Need at least 5 groups of each type to really know. Compare to similar groups fired in normal temps. Need chronograph data for each too.

Kinda what I was thinking. In addition... from a hunting perspective... it would be useful to see where the first shot falls. Is it in the group or not cold vs. warm. Where the first shot lands relative the sights is a large concern no matter the temps.