What do we know about shooting cast in extreme cold weather?
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
Chris
Well-Known Member
Do you think he meant alter the charge of the first round in the mag vs. later rounds in a warmer barrel?
yodogsandman
Well-Known Member
There's no lines at the range! I shoot a lot in the winter but, only if the wind cooperates. BLL is showing lots of promise at 10*F. I also try to use the stick powders and stay away from ball powders when it's cold. Will let you guys know when I get out after the holidays. We have some zero weather coming in the next few days but I'll be busy.
A warm barrel helps to unfreeze the finger tips when it's cold! Grab right ahold of it after 5 shots and warm them up!
Think "he" has turned to powder coating in the cold?
A warm barrel helps to unfreeze the finger tips when it's cold! Grab right ahold of it after 5 shots and warm them up!
Think "he" has turned to powder coating in the cold?
F
freebullet
Guest
The biggest trick for me is developing loads that shoot year-round. I can live with a zero change but, it's no fun to rework loads for cold only. Gets 110-minus15 here. That's asking a lot, even from jax.
Powder alone makes a major difference. Some powders are easier to lite in cold, some reduce or even increase pressure. So I started there by choosing the least temperature sensitive powders I could find. That info is documented already through testing. I lost the link but, there are well written articles about it. I think starting there and correlating from those that which with work best with cast eliminates a nasty variable from the start.
Powder alone makes a major difference. Some powders are easier to lite in cold, some reduce or even increase pressure. So I started there by choosing the least temperature sensitive powders I could find. That info is documented already through testing. I lost the link but, there are well written articles about it. I think starting there and correlating from those that which with work best with cast eliminates a nasty variable from the start.
Chris
Well-Known Member
That makes sense to me. Powder and lube must be the biggest variables.
Anyone have links to data?
fiver
Well-Known Member
nope.
goose slippery lubes will mitigate most of your cold weather concerns.
I shoot from the bench when it's cold but usually call it good at minus 20.
the E-yellow lube I developed using both aluminum stearate and lithium stearate works well down into the negatives but requires the bore to be repaired before the first shot to land in the group.
otherwise it works out to me needing a @4% powder reduction.
I can't use that lube over 80-85* or the groups open up to the 2" area.
if the barrel has been warmed and cooled a simple lube such as BAC and lanolin will work in the 20-40F area like the proverbial champ.
but you have to burn the first shot.
some waxes and lubes start to fall on their face below 20 others tick right along.
ATF and 2 stroke oil both do well in the cold, but even they have their point of no return.
if I were going to work on a cold weather lube.
atf- paraffin, and some metal solids is where I would look to help out my favorite lube.
goose slippery lubes will mitigate most of your cold weather concerns.
I shoot from the bench when it's cold but usually call it good at minus 20.
the E-yellow lube I developed using both aluminum stearate and lithium stearate works well down into the negatives but requires the bore to be repaired before the first shot to land in the group.
otherwise it works out to me needing a @4% powder reduction.
I can't use that lube over 80-85* or the groups open up to the 2" area.
if the barrel has been warmed and cooled a simple lube such as BAC and lanolin will work in the 20-40F area like the proverbial champ.
but you have to burn the first shot.
some waxes and lubes start to fall on their face below 20 others tick right along.
ATF and 2 stroke oil both do well in the cold, but even they have their point of no return.
if I were going to work on a cold weather lube.
atf- paraffin, and some metal solids is where I would look to help out my favorite lube.
Chris
Well-Known Member
How about just plain greasy stuff fingerlubed? Lithium grease for instance. This question focuses on first round accuracy?
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
The Dakota Benchrest Shooters shoot a "Frozen Chosin" M1 Garand match every January. It is a cast bullet match, and most of the data I can retrieve seems to be that they shoot H4895 with 200 plus bullets or AA5744 with 175's. Scores are not that much worse than summer scores shooting M1's. FWIW.
35 shooter
Well-Known Member
Chris,
I'm no good at computers as far as copying and pasting, but there is a thread here in the "general discussions" forum called "spring cleaning" that i started on feb. 15th or 17th of 2016.
There's a couple of targets shot with Ben's Red lube at -9* with 2 different cast bullet designs from the same rifle. One load in particular was very accurate and was shot by one of our members here.
You could probably pull that thread up with a search and i think the targets are in the 2nd post of that thread.
My brother in Co. was going to do some cold weather tests with Ben's Red and BLL this winter, but had to go through an eye surgery and is recovering from that now.
It doesn't get much hotter than 105*, or colder than 15* here in south MS., but Ben's Red, and now BLL, show no signs of giving up on either end of that for me. That's with the original formulation on those, i haven't found a need to tweak them in my 35 whelen for temp. differences in that range.
Fiver's Simple lube is another one that's held up in that same temp. range for me.
First shot cold bbl. performance is right in the group @105 yds. with Ben's Red and BLL in my rifle and Simple Lube would put the first one about 1 1/2" high and centered at the same range consistently for first shots from a cold bbl.
No problems for hunting with any of them.
I'm very interested in the replies you get here as to colder weather shooting. I knew Ben's Red had been shot at 0* with performance as usual, but was glad to see the -9* report last year.
I'm always super interested in all the lube testing going on and sometimes wish i lived where it got colder so i could help out more, but then again.....maybe just visit my brother and shoot in CO. when it's cold....then get back to MS. lol.
I'm no good at computers as far as copying and pasting, but there is a thread here in the "general discussions" forum called "spring cleaning" that i started on feb. 15th or 17th of 2016.
There's a couple of targets shot with Ben's Red lube at -9* with 2 different cast bullet designs from the same rifle. One load in particular was very accurate and was shot by one of our members here.
You could probably pull that thread up with a search and i think the targets are in the 2nd post of that thread.
My brother in Co. was going to do some cold weather tests with Ben's Red and BLL this winter, but had to go through an eye surgery and is recovering from that now.
It doesn't get much hotter than 105*, or colder than 15* here in south MS., but Ben's Red, and now BLL, show no signs of giving up on either end of that for me. That's with the original formulation on those, i haven't found a need to tweak them in my 35 whelen for temp. differences in that range.
Fiver's Simple lube is another one that's held up in that same temp. range for me.
First shot cold bbl. performance is right in the group @105 yds. with Ben's Red and BLL in my rifle and Simple Lube would put the first one about 1 1/2" high and centered at the same range consistently for first shots from a cold bbl.
No problems for hunting with any of them.
I'm very interested in the replies you get here as to colder weather shooting. I knew Ben's Red had been shot at 0* with performance as usual, but was glad to see the -9* report last year.
I'm always super interested in all the lube testing going on and sometimes wish i lived where it got colder so i could help out more, but then again.....maybe just visit my brother and shoot in CO. when it's cold....then get back to MS. lol.
Problem for me is taking optics in/out once temps below about 20....compared to a balmy 70 in shop.
But,I will shoot a group tomorrow a.m. with a tack driving .243....setting ammo out,lock rifle in shop truck.Sposed to be in the teens tonight,tomorrow morning.
95g RCBS,bumped nose,GC,as cast body,finger lubed with 50/50 BW,vaseline.
But,I will shoot a group tomorrow a.m. with a tack driving .243....setting ammo out,lock rifle in shop truck.Sposed to be in the teens tonight,tomorrow morning.
95g RCBS,bumped nose,GC,as cast body,finger lubed with 50/50 BW,vaseline.
Chris
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that information, 35. I have never made any lube but have read a lot about it... there's an enormous thread on the other site... and I am thinking a well tested homemade lube may be the ticket. I will probably make a batch of Ed'd red this winter an give it a spin.
I have been using Lars 2500+ recently, good stuff, but it just strikes me that it will be too hard in the cold. Doesn't it seem like a softer lube, maybe something real greasy, would keep that first shot tracking better? But then I gather that lube chemistry is complex and its function under pressure is mysterious.
The link to your thread is:
http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/spring-cleaning.986/
Chris
Well-Known Member
Thanks. What is the E-yellow lube recipe, sorry I'm not familiar? 35 above suggested Ben's Red, might be worth testing. I suppose a fellow could blend a little ATF into a good commercial lube?
I'm still wondering if a simple grease applied by finger would work. No worries about lube purging or group size... just got to make the first round fall to point of aim.
I have hunted with jacketed in -15 and if pushed to do so would probably repeat that. Elk or Moose would be the only game worth pursuing, IMM, and I would have no problems at all using jacketed. My plinking in the winter is usually limited to nice days of 30 or so and I rarely settle down to groups until at least March. Humidity varies so much in the cold and that to me means lube variations that could set you up for failure. Besides Mother Nature gave us the cold so we could fish fair, don't trust water you can't stand on.
Chris
Well-Known Member
Ha, I icefish too! Got an urge to understand lubes in cold weather, had not thought about humidity though.
Icefish? 
Ian
Notorious member
Chris, read this: http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/four-quarters-bullet-lube.1814/
It's sort of a synopsis with a lot of the back story missing from all the many extreme cold lube tests that Pete did. Another lube that worked well for him was a modified version of 357Maximum's "Satan's lube" called 666+1 which is six parts each beeswax, Vaseline, and paraffin with one part of Ivory soap blended in.
Pete is interested in achieving two things that lube can affect: Cold barrel flyers and overall consistency of grouping over time from dirty, normalized barrels. Below 10°F lots of problems with common lube ingredients start to creep up which Pete systematically identified and eliminated. ATF, lanolin, lithium soap grease, and animal fats were among the bad ones.
It's sort of a synopsis with a lot of the back story missing from all the many extreme cold lube tests that Pete did. Another lube that worked well for him was a modified version of 357Maximum's "Satan's lube" called 666+1 which is six parts each beeswax, Vaseline, and paraffin with one part of Ivory soap blended in.
Pete is interested in achieving two things that lube can affect: Cold barrel flyers and overall consistency of grouping over time from dirty, normalized barrels. Below 10°F lots of problems with common lube ingredients start to creep up which Pete systematically identified and eliminated. ATF, lanolin, lithium soap grease, and animal fats were among the bad ones.