30 Super Carry

if they made a bolt gun in 5.7 i'd have owned one for at least 10 years now.

if you look hard at the 'new' round you'll see it's more like a 380 magnum except for the expanded bullets diameter,, the 30 falls far short, but i bet it penetrates a bit better.
[i'm a penetration guy BTW]
but even at 50-K PSI it still isn't a 9mm.

one good thing that might come from this though,,,, think about what the 9 would be like at 50K..
that would probably put the 9 versus 45 debate to rest pretty quickly.

When the 300 BLK came out and was proclaimed the best thing since peanut butter by some and as ridiculous folly by others. I something else in it - a small, rimless-cased, 30 cal (close enough to 32) with very easy to source brass that I could use like a 32-20 or stoke it a bit to flatten trajectory some for cast bullet small-game, varminting and cheap fun. That's how I used it.

I look at this the same way, but more like a rimless 32 Mag, for which I don't have a use, but it still hits me in a very different way than what they intended to convey with the marketing blather - which I didn't bother to listen to at all.

Interesting, but I'm partial to rims for the types of guns I prefer, so not interesting enough for me to sell something and switch over.

When I bought the S&W Model 642 a few years back, I tossed around the idea of a Model 351 in 22 WMR for a while. I've cleaned up that 642's attitude & demeanor, and it is behaving well now. It's amazing what solvent and brushes can accomplish. S&W did a LOUSY JOB of cleaning up the internals after assembly.

CWLONGSHOT said:

Yes agreed. I didnt follow his tact there.

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Oh, okay. I didn't know if he was supposed to be knowledgeable or was a friend of yours or what. Seemed like kind of an "experty expert" type with no real argument to make.

Near as I can tell the 327 has a case more than 1/4" longer. You load to the same pressures the 327 is going to win. I can't see this as a 327 autoloader. And then theres the barrel length of the 30SC, put it in a 2.5-3.5" barrel and I bet you don't get any 1400fps. I'd like to see some real world data out of production guns. There were a great many 9mm loads that were supposed to be coming out the barrel at 13-1400fps that actual real world data showed were 11-1200fps loads, and that was out of full sized guns, not ultra compacts. And if they are in fact loading these to 50K, are the guns going to hold up?

Whatever. If it keeps the companies in business I guess thats a good thing.

50K PSI are pretty stalwart pressures. The 327 Federal runs at 46K PSI. This trait runs counter to SAAMI's revised pressure levels for the 357/41/44 Magnums, down-graded from 43.5K CUP to 36K PSI c. 1990. I can only imagine the report levels of a 3"-barreled 30 SC autopistol. Hi'jo la!

Oh jeeze, Al done did get me wondering with his talk of CUP and PSI. I got looking around and found some formulas, (formulae?), for converting one to "t'other" and then stumbled on this. The math is well beyond my ken, but it still makes for interesting reading! https://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/psicuparticle2.pdf

I looked up the data for "horribly disfigured neutered" 357 comparing early 70s data to 1995 ...... Yep the the pressure numbers sure did change ...... Rated velocity not so much . Some.of the dragon slayer loads were dropped and Blue Dot with <150 gr bullets for example .

There may be math but there's only like 7 cartridges that have the same CUP and PSI numbers .

Shotgun was always rated LUP up to like 14,000 and this were some hot 1-1/4oz 2-3/4" mags . I'm told that 12 ga is held to 12,000 PSI . With wad , case base , and powder selection you can get some real smokers within that limit .
Remington Nitro Steel mags printed right on the side of the case said 1050 BAR .......... That's 15,000 psi , in SAAMI factory loaded ammo .

So yeah I don't know what any of it means .

The electric strain gauges , piezo , and the ability to actually see what the charge is doing rather than just the absolute peak , blast shadow , and velocity definitely changed data . It changed powder selections , rearranged burn rate charts and dropped several powders completely out of suggestions for some cartridges .

It really didn't neuter any of them ......well maybe the Ackley improved and the still wild adopted wildcats . 280 AI for example is a reprint of 280 Rem data but in 24" barrels instead of 22" .

1050 come around when the 3-1/2" guns showed up.

here's another thing to think about.
nobody can get hardly nuthin nowhere, now you got this comin along and it needs a machine to make bullets, another machine to make brass, [it most likely takes a different powder too] and now you need another machine to put them all together.

so what machines are they gonna take down to make this ammo?
9mm line? not hardly,, they can only sell all they make now.
40?-45? sure why not? that's all over the place too.
they surely didn't lie to us and buy a couple more machines and hire another 6 people to run them did they?

380 or a cowboy line will get the chop .

True enough Fiver. The Chronys people started using left a great many 9mm fans severely disappointed. I recall getting into a long winded fight over on the board where most of us have been banned when I offered the idea that the 9mm was pretty much an auto loading 38 Special. You'd have thought I insulted Mom, apple pie and The Good Old US of A! Real world figures with 9mm and pre-neutered era 38 Specials were about the same. Some would have burned me at the stake for uttering such blasphemy! Load them both to the same general pressure and they're pretty much twins with any advantage going to the 38.

fiver said:

why isn't it called the 31 federal?

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Could also be called 8x21mm.

Or 32 ACP Magnum...

Several variables arrived on scene at roughly the same time--piezo-quartz electronic transducers replaced copper and lead crusher interpretation; general ownership of chrongraphs (the polygraph of ballistics) expanded greatly, coupled with a reloading and casting renaissance brought about by cyclic ammo/firearm/components shortages. This occurred c. 1985-1995, and remains in place today.

Nothing has been the same since this occurred. We now know for a fact that ammomakers have lied to us for decades about product performance. Since they have proven themselves to be consummate BSers, perhaps we should not accept at face value their whining and moaning about supply stream issues for ammo or components.

That The Makers wish to add another caliber to the mix seems strangely timed, given that ammo and components have been very scarce for close to two years. These companies move in mysterious ways.

the original name for it was the 8mm sumthin or other.


yep Allen.
remember the last shortage when all of the sudden IMR green-red-unequal popped up then clay-dot, and the enduron powders all showed their faces, the CFE's and MR series of rifle powders showed up right then too.

they couldn't get us any bulls-eye or clay's or 4895, but they could ramp up production no problem on 9 different new things.

fiver said:

the original name for it was the 8mm sumthin or other.


yep Allen.
remember the last shortage when all of the sudden IMR green-red-unequal popped up then clay-dot, and the enduron powders all showed their faces, the CFE's and MR series of rifle powders showed up right then too.

they couldn't get us any bulls-eye or clay's or 4895, but they could ramp up production no problem on 9 different new things.

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YES! I was just thinking the same thing. In the midst of the greatest component shortage the shooting world had ever seen, like two dozen new powders and at least one new powder company pop up, not that any of it was available anyway. Also, how many new chamberings popped up? All this makes me think that products and releases are planned years in advance and the contracted adverts come out on schedule regardless of the market situation.

fiver said:

the original name for it was the 8mm sumthin or other.

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8mm Bergman #8, 8mm Rast Gasser, 8mm Walther Ultra Experimental, 7.63mm Mannlicher M1901, or any number of century old designs.
Very similar to the 30 Pedersen (parent of the previously mentioned French 7.65 Longue).
Now if only someone would chamber a new Pedersen device in this caliber, I will have a low velocity load for my 1903 Mark 1 Springfield.

well they are certainly coordinated.
there's already 2 pistols slated for release, ain't nobody buying a gun they can't get ammo for.
so there's gonna be boxes on the shelf soon, those same guns are chambered in other rounds, but are they gonna have cases of stuff available too?

fiver said:

well they are certainly coordinated.
there's already 2 pistols slated for release, ain't nobody buying a gun they can't get ammo for.
so there's gonna be boxes on the shelf soon, those same guns are chambered in other rounds, but are they gonna have cases of stuff available too?

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I buy the ammo first… When I decided I “needed” a 17M2 I bought 4,000 rounds before I bought the rifle! Of course it was Eley, they had discontinued it and everyone was dumping it. Paid $3.00 per 50 rounds. Should have bought 100,000 rounds…

Did the same with 350 Legend, bought 200 cases 3 months ago. Only screwed up a little, should have bought 500 and then I think I’d been set.

If I start seeing 30 SC brass show, I’ll probably buy some… Not sure how much, depends on the price.