Idaholewis
Active Member
That’s what i was hoping to hear!
750 Yard .308 Win
- Thread starter Idaholewis
- Start date
That’s what i was hoping to hear!
Ian
Notorious member
Forget the 311322 for high velocity. Or don't, and do some load workups from 1500 fps with Unique through 2600 fps with H414 and a few in between and discover for yourself. That might be better because it will get you asking a lot of questions that will help you understand all these things we've been telling you.
What you want to do for high velocity, long range cast is use jacketed bullet data for the same bullet weight, and tend toward the slower powders listed (not always, but "tend").
I do not know of a current iron mould design suitable for your purposes. Possibly the Lyman 311644. We all have our preferences in things but having been there and done that I can tell you this will be a lot easier for you if you compromise on this one and focus on the bullet designs we have been recommending instead of the material.
What you want to do for high velocity, long range cast is use jacketed bullet data for the same bullet weight, and tend toward the slower powders listed (not always, but "tend").
I do not know of a current iron mould design suitable for your purposes. Possibly the Lyman 311644. We all have our preferences in things but having been there and done that I can tell you this will be a lot easier for you if you compromise on this one and focus on the bullet designs we have been recommending instead of the material.
Idaholewis
Active Member
Is high Velocity a Mandatory thing for Longer ranges? We are shooting 530-540 Grain Bullets at a mere 1300 fps to 1,000 Yards in These Muzzleloaders. They Shoot the Same Loads in BPCR (Black Powder Cartridge Rifle) to 1 Mile, 1,760 Yards
I am not trying to be hard headed, i just DESPISE Aluminum Molds, and try to AVOID them.
Ian
Notorious member
Supersonic the whole way isn't required, but some cast bullet designs do not survive the transonic buffeting thing very well and destabilize. Some do just fine. 1600 fps at the muzzle is plenty to get a .30-caliber bullet to 3-400 yards with accuracy if it makes the transition ok.
Idaholewis
Active Member
Here is Buffalo Arms Owner, and Personal Friend of mine Shooting the White Buffalo Target at the NRA Whittington Center in Raton New Mexico. Dave is our Current World Champion. I asked Dave the Distance here? He said it was over 1,100 Yards, He Thought 1,163 Yards. His Bullet is a BIG LONG 530-550 Grain Bullet Traveling Sloooooow. Rifle is a .45-110 Borchardt
And he does it with Peep Sights
And he does it with Peep Sights
Idaholewis
Active Member
I shouldn’t have posted that, it makes my 600 Yard Sidelock stuff look pretty Irrelevant
No, I’m proud of where i am at with my Muzzleloader Stuff! Dave Gullo and Lee Shaver’s are Both 2 Time World Champions, it’s hard to Compare against those Guy’s. My long Range Sight System in my 600 Yard Sidelock Video is ALL Lee Shaver’s Stuff, With His Advice/Help Putting it together. Dave and Lee have both been a HUGE help to me. I see Dave on a Regular Basis in Buffalo Arms (His business)Here is something I found REALLY REALLY impressive!! When i was setting up my long Range Peep sight Setup Through Lee Shaver’s, i asked him what his Best group was at 1,000 Yards? He told me 5 shots that measured 8” inches. Think about that? There are VERY VERY few people that Can do that with a HIGH END Scoped Centerfire Rifle, Lee Shaver’s did it with his Peep Sights, and BIG SLOOOOOOW Moving Bullets
IMPRESSIVE!!Dave Gullo and Lee Shaver’s, I think this was at the Bisley Center in UK? These guy’s are Truly LEGENDS of BPCR, Muzzleloader. And have Both been inspirational, and VERY VERY Good to me
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Until you work on the mental bloc about aluminum nothing is going to change. Aluminum is a fine mold material but there is a definite learning curve and until you make the decision to start that learning curve you'll struggle mightily with aluminum molds. The only difference between iron and aluminum molds is the rate at which they either loose or retain heat. Learn the casting pace and proper "mold" temperature with aluminum as well as you have with iron molds and you'll quickly be casting bullets of equal quality from either.
If it's any consolation to you people that learn on aluminum molds also struggle when switching to iron and it's exactly the same learning curve in reverse.
With your black powder bullets of 500+ grains you have a lot of momentum going for you. Get a bullet that heavy going 1300 fps and it simply doesn't slow down nearly as fast as a far lighter say 30 cal. bullet with far less momentum will. Part of the reason your heavy black powder bullets are so effective on game, the momentum of that much mass just doesn't want to stop.
Idaholewis
Active Member
You are correct, The .40 Cals are doing AMAZING right now out to 600 or so Yards, after 500-600 Yards our .45s with the BIG Looong, Heavy 530-550 Grain Bullets Take Over And DOMINATE
Idaholewis
Active Member
My little 9MM Muzzleloader, 1:15 Twist 32” Barrel, Something i came up with and had Built (A Barrel) and Stil Tinkering with it, It Shoots REALLY well. This Spring Summer i will take it out to 600 or so. These Small Bore, Fast Twist Muzzleloaders build a Lot of pressure Fast. I had to move to a Platinum Lined Nipple (60 bucks a piece) I was getting about a Dozen Shots on a Regular Treso/Ampco and it was COOKING Them, That wasn’t gonna work! This was Suppose to be a .360-.361, But ended up MUCH closer to 9mm Bore Diameter
340 Grain Bullet
340 Grain Bullet
Idaholewis
Active Member
The Platinum Lined nipples show zero wear so Far, in fact they actually Shrink a tiny bit. Dave Gullo above has a 1,000 or more Shots on them and Stil Going Strong, They are expensive, but they Last!
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Idaholewis
Active Member
Ian
Notorious member
The same difference between the large bore and 15-twist 9mm muzzle-loaders you'll see again between the 9mm and cast in a .308 Winchester. One of the biggest challenges to shooting cast bullets from fixed ammunition is the fixed ammunition part. So many factors come into play that you do not have to account for with the front-stuffers. This is why bullet design and throat shape, together with an understanding of the nature of ternary lead alloys, pressure curves, and what we can group under the umbrella of "loading techniques" are critical factors to success.
It's relatively easy to take a gas-checked, two-diameter Barlow bullet, stuff it in a .308 case that has only been prepared with a partial-size using a FL die and the neck expanded with an M-die, out in 16 grains of 2400, and shoot MOA at 100 yards at 1700 fps. Anything more than that requires a bit more attention.
It's relatively easy to take a gas-checked, two-diameter Barlow bullet, stuff it in a .308 case that has only been prepared with a partial-size using a FL die and the neck expanded with an M-die, out in 16 grains of 2400, and shoot MOA at 100 yards at 1700 fps. Anything more than that requires a bit more attention.
Idaholewis
Active Member
I don’t know where the threshold is at? What Velocity i would need to get to X Distance, etc.? I have no experience with Cast Bullets in Centerfire, Only Muzzleloader
But it’s the same thing as I mention above about the .40s Doing so well right now out to 500-600 Yards, But after that our BIG LOOONG HEAVY .45 bullets are Taking over, and Dominating. The Lighter Bullets simply won’t hang with the Heavy weights, they never have, and Never will