Super Hard Bullet Recipe

[Mitty38]

Depends on what a fella shoots and what he is considering serious shooting.
IMHO If you have figured out every gun you own and shoot, shot well with Lyman #2. Have a lifetime supply. Have no leading and desired moa in every gun,then you should not change. Stick with what works for you.

My self I shoot several different disciplines, so I have 4 different alloys I use.
1* my half way version of Lyman 2 and hard ball. (AR15)
2* 1/30 mixed half with range scrap (semi auto pistols, .full power)
3* pure (muzzle loaders)
4* wheel weight (anything 30 caliber., And my .357 rifle loads.)
Of course I also switch between lube or PC as needed.
But that is me and my guns. Not you and yours.

 

[Bret4207]

In your case such an explanation would be akin to tilting at windmills.

Well stated.

 

[Rick]

So "splain" to me why, for serious shooting I should anything but RotoMetals Lyman #2 ?

You should only do what makes you happy. You should also apply that same standard to others.

 

[CZ93X62]

Lyman #2 alloy casts wonderfully, as does Linotype--owing to the percentages of tin in each mix (5% and 4%, respectively). Higher tin content, as long as it doesn't exceed the antimony content percentage, makes for great fill-out. Those casting fine-banded designs like the Loverins will benefit from these higher tin percentages.

My most-used alloy has historically been 92/6/2, which is half Linotype and half unalloyed lead, sometimes called Taracorp or hardball alloy. If I'm casting Loverins or other fine-detail bullets, I add about 4 oz. of tin to the 22# melt, resulting in roughly a 90/6/4 alloy. The #2, the Taracorp, and the enriched Taracorp all run around BHN 15, and they have served me well in rifles and handguns to 2000 FPS and beyond (in a couple calibers). That's all Old School lubed & sized, I might add.

More recently, a lot of my casting has involved either pure lead or 30/1 Pb/Sn for revolvers, and both can be be run to 900-950 FPS IF SIZED TO FIT THROATS without loss of accuracy. Zero leading as well, 50/50 Alox/BW in the grooves. I'll bet a pure lead #358429 would expand readily at 850-900 FPS impact speeds, and leave a lasting impression on the recipient.

 

[RBHarter]

I know I spend a lot of time looking for a "learned min energy at range" number .
I also desire a specific max group size .

As I have "matured" in my abilities I've added the desire for a bullet to behave in a certain way upon impact .

Sometimes all 3 things line up and sometimes I settle for 2 outta 3 .

#2 will meet 2/3 95% of the time .

Of course my stable isn't really conducive to all #2 all of the time . What a waste that would be in a 45 S&W , Colts , or 45-70 .
I'd never get a patched round ball to seat , not the second time anyway .
Minie' would just be ........I don't know , useless , I guess .
I can't even imagine trying to get an RB much less a Pickett ball in a C&B out of #2 .
Its no biggie in a 222 where you're goal is to just kill a varmint and death is the important part . I don't know that it would super great with a 27,28,30,32, or 35 cal for anything much more durable than a coyote and when you get back to the 38+ calibers it's almost as much a waste in rifles as pistols that operate under 25kpsi .

If paper and long range is your only use then #2 is probably all the answer you're going to need .

Besides where's the fun in pouring the intended alloy in a mould ? Seriously wouldn't rather get 35 gr free in a 500 gr mould and need to Beagle or nose size bullets to fit ?

 

[fiver]

Its no biggie in a 222 where you're goal is to just kill a varmint and death is the important part

heh #2 is not what you want to use here either.
unless you want to head shoot them so they just stand there and quiver until they tip over #2 is useless.
even body shots are pointless, they will just stand there looking around wondering why the dirt is poofing up behind them until they eventually bleed out.

 

[CZ93X62]

My most-used cast bullets for hunting are the two 243 castings on small varmints like ground squirrels and jackrabbits, including a couple coyotes, the RCBS 6mm-95-SP and the Lyman #245496, an 84 grain Loverin. Launch speeds are in the 1700-1800 FPS ballpark, with most shots within 150 yards. Most hits are DRTs, often scattering rat components in 2-4 directions. These are solid 92/6/2 castings, mostly. 3 of 4 are the RCBS bullet, which shoots better than the Lyman--it groups slightly better, and carries A LOT better past 100 yards. Both song dogs were bang-flops, 50 and about 65 yards off the muzzle IIRC. I have yet to recover a bullet, in the jacks and coyotes the exits are ragged and a bit explosive, maybe the bullets are tumbling.

I haven't pursued making Bruce B Soft Points with the 243 castings, because their downrange effects have been decisive enough to suit my needs as-is. I suppose donor slugs for cavities that small could be derived from lead airgun pellets, to form the soft points. 4 of the RWS Meisterkugeln 8.3 grain .177 pellets would make for an expensive donor point pre-cursor element. Of course, that's all out the window now in Kalifornistan, which has gone all-unleaded all the time for hunting ANYTHING. Barnes Condor Cuddlers, to the rescue. Whatta place.

 

[fiver]

maybe they are tumbling.
i know the RCBS silhouette bullet in 30 caliber pushed a smidge over 2-K turns most small things like ground squirrels and rock chucks into poor B grade western actors or redd foxx doing a death scene.

it's pretty comical when you get on a good open grass stand and realize there is 10-15 of the little buggers staggering and flopping all over the place.
but it doesn't take long to start feeling bad for them and you end up having to shoot them twice.

 

[Bret4207]

Once again, the above illustrates my preference for a FP, blunt RN or SWC in shooting things that breathe. If I had any #2 and was willing to waste #2 on such an endeavor it would be with a FP or other listed style. As it is, a 120ish grain, fairly soft 311316 at 1800ish out of a 32-20 rifle will go right through a standing side shot on a coyote and leave a bigger hole than desired if the fur was prime.

 

[Rally]

But thread is cheap Bret!

Once again, the above illustrates my preference for a FP, blunt FP or SWC in shooting things that breathe. If I had any #2 and was willing to waste #2 on such an endeavor it would be with a FP or other listed style. As it is, a 120ish grain, fairly soft 311316 at 1800ish out of a 32-20 rifle will go right through a standing side shot on a coyote and leave a bigger hole than desired if the fur was prime.

 

[CZ93X62]

The RCBS #6mm-95/SP does have a small meplat, as does their #22-55-SP. I haven't whacked enough rats with the 22 version to make any conclusions, but they too are pretty decisive--and they seem to tumble also.

I agree with Bret's text regarding the flat points/meplats on levergun and revolver bullets as critter gitters. Round flatnose and SWC forms seem to punch well above their weight class on animated targets.

It would bother me to see the scenario described by Fiver on a varmint hunt. Even a raggedy rat or varmint deserves a quick dispatching.

 

[RBHarter]

Having not used any real known alloys ......... I wrongly presumed a high speed bone strike would fragment and make an ugly hole with secondary biological hard fragments spread throughout .

Oops .

 

[Bret4207]

But thread is cheap Bret!

I suppose, but I have never been much of a seamstress (seamsir?)! I have a hard enough time skinning the buggers! I've had a couple that made beaver look like a walk in the park.

 

[fiver]

i thought the hard stuff like Lino would shatter too.

i also assumed ww alloy would be a decent core for 22lr jackets.
i cut it in half, then cut it down again to about 1% antimony, and finally ended up using about .5% antimony and then added a small exposed lead tip [going so far as sitting there tapping number-5 shot in the open noses] to get varmint bullet performance.
the thinnish jackets should have let the core do it's job.
but it apparently was enough support to hold it together further than a 4" tall varmint could resist until i got the core down to pure or damn near pure with just a bit of antimony alone

i learned enough from those expeditions to be able to make a pretty good guess on which step back up the line to take to work over a deer bullet to my satisfaction.

 

[Bret4207]

Fiver, kind of like Saint Elmer filing the tips off military '06 ammo and figuring out that wouldn't turn them into meat getter's? I think we take a lot of the work that went into developing effective jacketed bullets for granted. It's been a long road!

 

[L Ross]

So "splain" to me why, for serious shooting I should anything but RotoMetals Lyman #2 ?

'Cause there several thousands of pounds of plumbous "stuff" in the sheds?

 

[fiver]

i don't think most people have a clue what goes into a simple cup and core bullet to make it do what it does.
unfortunately everything you do to a bullet is like everything else gun related,,, gain here lose there,, go back the other way and lose here gain there.

anyway.
they seem like a very simple thing, and they are, a chunk of cylinder shaped lead shoved into a copper alloy cup, with the nose folded over to a point.

the complications, and changes, start when you want that bullet to do something specific, or more than one thing.
you know like shoot 1" groups and make two holes in a deer, or one hole in a deer, or two holes in an elk.
that's really three separate bullets, or the same bullet constructed three separate ways.
one will never do all of those things no matter what you use for a jacket or core alloy, even a solid mono-metal bullet won't do it.

 

[fiver]

that's 2 bullets and only 2 of the three scenarios above.
change the word deer to deer and antelope, your then expecting something else to happen besides 2 holes.
because then your 2 holes are pencil size, and you got a warp 3 antelope 4 miles away still kicking up dust clouds.
why do you think Barnes put a tip on their TSX bullets? [modified their first bullet]

 

[Ian]

....

 

[Bret4207]

Kinda why I like cast and a FP. Since all my stuff is relatively soft and since it's not going warp 17, it simplifies some things. Sort of like the good old round ball out of a muzzle loader. Keep things within range, know your anatomy fairly well things usually go according to plan.