What do we know about shooting cast in extreme cold weather?
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
fiver
Well-Known Member
the hydrogenization process does lock the castor oil up into a wax.
it is used in some under arm deodorants as a binding type agent as well as a carrier.
I never followed it up too far but did make note of it and thought about trying a stick deodorant containing it with some bees-wax as a starter lube.
the stick type under arm deodorant itself could work as is in many situations.
it is used in some under arm deodorants as a binding type agent as well as a carrier.
I never followed it up too far but did make note of it and thought about trying a stick deodorant containing it with some bees-wax as a starter lube.
the stick type under arm deodorant itself could work as is in many situations.
fiver
Well-Known Member
Just be very careful searching "lubricant" online, it is very easy to go to sites that aren't what you are looking for.
or maybe..
Don't use Axe or the girls will never leave your ammo alone. It will also make your ammo smell like a middle school locker room.
Ian
Notorious member
Ahh, that reminds me. Al stearate will also pull Alox out of gun steel like no tomorrow. Old Spice is in a red container these days. Glycerin and the gel alcohols make fine pistol bullet lubes, just clean and oil your barrel afterwards. No, not THAT barrel. Straight Irish Spring rubbed into the grooves works too, but it will corrode your bullets like no tomorrow.
fiver
Well-Known Member
I run far away from glycerin.
unless using it on my face or sumthin.
the aluminum stearate was the main additive in the E-yellow series of lubes.
I was buffering it with that clay stuff too.
but even at 5-7% on top of the Li stearate it fell apart at the high temps at the Nevada shoot.
the wife still won her group beating Littlegirl by .02"
that was the lube I was trying to mix with the polyglycol based lube when the flaming night time dance and juggling act occurred.
unless using it on my face or sumthin.
the aluminum stearate was the main additive in the E-yellow series of lubes.
I was buffering it with that clay stuff too.
but even at 5-7% on top of the Li stearate it fell apart at the high temps at the Nevada shoot.
the wife still won her group beating Littlegirl by .02"
that was the lube I was trying to mix with the polyglycol based lube when the flaming night time dance and juggling act occurred.
Chris
Well-Known Member
Ian, I really appreciate the time you spent on your posts here... same to five, JonB, Brad, pete.
I never mentioned, but about 2 months ago I was on the other site and read AFAIK every post of you guys experimenting with lubes and the discussion. This took a while. Now there was too much information to retain... this is an elective but not required course... but I walked away with two thoughts. First, hang onto the general understanding of what works and why and don't sweat the details yet, my day will come. Second, I said to myself "Chris, DON'T get started doing this... it's exactly the kind of thing that fascinates you and will draw you in and you can't spare the time right now. Maybe someday. Just don't ".
So I am pleased that you guys are giving me the remedial executive summary and pointing out challenges and areas of opportunity. I certainly get C.O.R.E., I kinda knew that from life experience shooting cast but you have made this a richer subject in discussing specific factors affecting C.O.R.E.
JonB sent me a bunch of links and I am pounding on them. I don't have the chemistry (just undergrad level) of branched molecules, etc. but I'm trying to follow how things work.
Pete, I appreciate your experience in cold testing and am paying close attention. Specifically, rifles and ammo will be inside the truck cap all night before shooting, and I will not shoot with an even slightly warm barrel. I can bring along an infrared thermometer to verify consistent barrel temps.
Look I really want this to work. By that I mean produce verifiable, repeatable results and data useful to our members. So pitch in and keep me staight here before I get too far down the road. I can't now owing to babysitting grandson... but I would like to put in writing for you how the procedure that might collect the most information. Let you critique if you wish.
Don't let the lube work become, well, work. Keep it fun. It can easily become a chore to make, load, and test lubes. It can easily take the fun out of shooting.
It Ian ever says things like "make a grease from sodium stearate and ATF" do NOT do it in the kitchen. Even more important, don't do it with your wife and daughter watching. Fills the house with smoke and stench. It does earn you a hot plate to use outdoors....
It Ian ever says things like "make a grease from sodium stearate and ATF" do NOT do it in the kitchen. Even more important, don't do it with your wife and daughter watching. Fills the house with smoke and stench. It does earn you a hot plate to use outdoors....
Ian
Notorious member
I seem to recall warning you about doing boolit stuff in Mama's nice kitchen...but some people learn the hard way
Chris, this can be a dark road to travel if you're an obsessive type. Like Brad said, keep it fun and stop when it isn't. This whole thing is optional, it isn't like the survival of our race involves perfecting a recipe.
As for the test protocol in extreme cold, I'm no help. A five-shot group fired in five or ten minutes or so from normalized rifle/ammo and repeated at least twice on different days might show something about barrel warming trends, but I'm not really sure what you're looking for the lube to do for you. Pete outlined his own testing protocol and the reasoning behind it, you may need to think it over and come up with your own practical evaluation methods.
Chris, this can be a dark road to travel if you're an obsessive type. Like Brad said, keep it fun and stop when it isn't. This whole thing is optional, it isn't like the survival of our race involves perfecting a recipe.
As for the test protocol in extreme cold, I'm no help. A five-shot group fired in five or ten minutes or so from normalized rifle/ammo and repeated at least twice on different days might show something about barrel warming trends, but I'm not really sure what you're looking for the lube to do for you. Pete outlined his own testing protocol and the reasoning behind it, you may need to think it over and come up with your own practical evaluation methods.
Well no more lube for you!
I do think we are to a point where the devil is in the details. We need to think in terms of .5-1% additions.
Pete, what did you decide on lanolin in extreme cold? I seem to remember it being out. I ask because I think about how good a thin film lubricant it is but also realize that it could easily leave a residue that may not play nice.
Pete, what did you decide on lanolin in extreme cold? I seem to remember it being out. I ask because I think about how good a thin film lubricant it is but also realize that it could easily leave a residue that may not play nice.
Eutectic
Active Member
Let's talk the 30-30 a moment.....
No..... not the caliber we most all like..... I'm talking differential... 30*F spread...
From a LOT of experience I've learned a very repeatable fact. Most any lube formulation with well chosen components will perform great over a 30* spread between 45* to 75* almost all the time.....
BUT change that 30* spread from -15* below zero to 15* above..... Only a few formulas will span that 30* unchanged in a full saturation test!
Chris..... The infrared thermometer idea is a good one! One thing that concerns me is about your comment of guns and ammo in the truck cab....I would suggest you use that thermometer on guns/ammo before you start in this case. If the mercury outside is -15* below the truck cab might be 15* above??? Even if you then go outside the gun/ammo is not normalized.... You might be doing a 15* above test or at best some temp between cab and bench. Every single degree can change things quick when you play in the 'minus' world..
Pete
No..... not the caliber we most all like..... I'm talking differential... 30*F spread...
From a LOT of experience I've learned a very repeatable fact. Most any lube formulation with well chosen components will perform great over a 30* spread between 45* to 75* almost all the time.....
BUT change that 30* spread from -15* below zero to 15* above..... Only a few formulas will span that 30* unchanged in a full saturation test!
Chris..... The infrared thermometer idea is a good one! One thing that concerns me is about your comment of guns and ammo in the truck cab....I would suggest you use that thermometer on guns/ammo before you start in this case. If the mercury outside is -15* below the truck cab might be 15* above??? Even if you then go outside the gun/ammo is not normalized.... You might be doing a 15* above test or at best some temp between cab and bench. Every single degree can change things quick when you play in the 'minus' world..
Pete
Eutectic
Active Member
Brad... I haven't tested lanolin in formulations below zero. I assume it would be bad... But assume can be a dangerous word... Kind of like Sae 140 gear oil handling -18* below zero fine! So it should be tested to be sure.... The 2% area we work in is a narrow window!
I did find Neatsfoot oil squirrelly at double digits below... Purge fliers (or large C.O.R.E. shifts) like every other shot. Sort of like ATF can act.
Pete
I did find Neatsfoot oil squirrelly at double digits below... Purge fliers (or large C.O.R.E. shifts) like every other shot. Sort of like ATF can act.
Pete