Cheap bullets and not loading the way you're "supposed to"

Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Every .243 rifle I ever shot stomped the crap out of me. Same with 20-gauge shotguns. My own Winchester Model 37 .410 kicked 10-year-old me so bad I never even tried hunting with anything bigger until high school....imagine my surprise when I finally did and that 12-gauge Wingmaster was a pussycat compared to my little single-shot. "ladies and boys" my ass, give them full sized man cartridges with light to medium payloads, make sure the gun fits them reasonably well, and teach them how to manage recoil.

Some time back I was watching some three-gun competition and this little 11 year old girl that probably didn't make 100 pounds soaking wet was running an M-16, Benelli auto, and tricked-out G17 like a boss. Yeah, she was getting knocked around by recoil, but had obviously been trained well how to move with it and not get hurt.
 
oscarflytyer

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
Like Ian...

I REFUSED to shoot ANY 30-30 for damned near 45 yrs - because I got the snot kicked out of me when I was 11-12 yrs old by a little 16" Trapper 94! You couldn't give me one - yet today! Same for a "Youth" model 870 Express. Bought one for the boys. Oldest son (12ish) said it kicked like a mule, and he was a good sized athletic kid. Wife shot it/she used to duck hunt with a 12 - Said same thing. I was like "WTF - give it to me." two shots later, and being punched in the nose, I sold it! Hated that gun!

PS: used to shoot a ton of 300 WM. Shot all the way up to 45 WM. Shoot a lot of 45-70s. Has a lot to do with the platform!
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Again, there's something to be said for the older style, heavier rifle. I have a 35 Whelen built on an '03-A3 action. I've loaded some real thumpers for that gun and it never hurt. The stock fits me but more importantly I think, it weighs a good 8lbs+. Gas shotguns are supposed to lessen the recoil too. That being said, I love light rifles. You don't have to load them so they kick like a mule.
 
L Ross

L Ross

Well-Known Member
Alerts
Bret4207 said:
Again, there's something to be said for the older style, heavier rifle. I have a 35 Whelen built on an '03-A3 action. I've loaded some real thumpers for that gun and it never hurt. The stock fits me but more importantly I think, it weighs a good 8lbs+. Gas shotguns are supposed to lessen the recoil too. That being said, I love light rifles. You don't have to load them so they kick like a mule.
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My gas operated 11-87s are soft shooting guns. I shoot hyper-velocity steel reloads with light shot charges at close to 1,700 fps. I no longer miss my old 1 1/4 lead loads. My late friend and duck hunting partner had a top of the line Benelli semi auto. He was trying to convince me of the superiority of the Benelli over an ordinary Remington, and loaned it to me one morning on a hunt. A. His Benelli kicked me cross eyed. B. I couldn't hit a bull in the fanny with it. Of course all the cool kids will gladly tell you that Benellis and Berettas are great and Remingtons are junk.
 
R

richhodg66

Well-Known Member
"You don't have to load them so they kick like a mule."

I have come to the conclusion most guys are shooting more gun than they need. A few years ago, I got busy and lazy, the early antlerless segment was around the corner and I didn't have anything vintage with cast ready to go so went back to my old Model 70 in .30-06 with what I knew worked, 165 grain game kings and a full load of 760. It does indeed work well. I was zeroing the rifle thinking, "holy cow this thing is loud and kicks hard". The wife even came outside and asked what the hell I was shooting.

I've been shooting reduced cast loads almost exclusively now, I had forgotten what a real rifle load felt like.

The deer I shot that weekend was about the farthest shot I can remember ever taking on a deer, probably 150 yards, so maybe it was good I did it. Still, she ran farther than I have normally had them run with my cast loads in things, shot placement was good, wrecked both lungs. Power isn't all it's cracked up to be.
 
Glaciers

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Recoil is a funny thing. I’m not a big guy, probably average, lately a little bigger then average around the belt line, but what else is new.
I’ve watched big guys that out weigh me by 50 to 80 pounds flinch with non belted cartridges. To me it‘s how you hold the rifle. As I said I’m just average. But I like a long pull stock. I don’t stand 90* square on with the rifle, I’m standing closer to a 45* so the stock will not be a direct shock to my body. I don’t know if that really helps but I believe it does. I’ve watched big guys stand square on with a rifle and get beat. Takes a lot to move the bigger mass unless the rifle stock can dissipate by not holding square on.
Now I shoot 458 mag, 45-70, 348, 35 Whelen, 338 mag, 30-06 and other larger calibers. I don’t have a problem. When you go to the heavy end of bullets for each obviously there will be more recoil, and I like heavy for caliber bullets. The absolute worst kicking cartridge I’ve ever shot is a 300 W Mag. Recoil impulse is fast. I’m talking close to higher velocity jacketed loads.
Shooting from a bench makes it more difficult with the heavier calibers, but….
Shooting cast is far more enjoyable, less noise, recoil, a little more smoke.
Missionary isn’t a big guy, but he is shooting big stuff on a regular basis.
I just think the less mass you present to the recoil impulse the better. Light smaller person Moves with the recoil, big guy is absorbing recoil.
Yeah some of you guys are thinking I’m nuts, ok, but that’s my story, it works for me and I’m sticking to it.
 
RicinYakima

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Standing and facing the target is known as the "shotgun" stance and great for bird shooting. Standing and facing 45* away is the "rifleman" stance. Anyone who has been in the military will know which one to use.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
People have looked at me like I'm an idiot when I say my Marlin 94 in 44 Mag was unpleasant to shoot with real magnum loads and 240 grain bullets, but it was not a "fun" gun to shoot. Conversely, 310 grain bullets in a Super Blackhawk at 1200+ fps were no problem at all.

Husqvarna 51L in 308 was painful to shoot with 150s, but I had no problem at all shooting 180s out of a WRA Featherweight in '06. They both weighed the same, if the Husky wasn't a tad heavier. Different stocks is all I can think of.

Pre-spine-injuries, I shot bigger, badder stuff. I'm not sure if not for the injuries that I'd be shooting the sensible stuff I do today, but I also won't call that a "silver lining." That's what it took for me to tone it way down, but I'm enjoying shooting a LOT more than I did before I got messed up.
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Shooting those old 12 ga Ithaca 37 riot guns with slugs gave me a definite flinch. I had to concentrate hard to avoid pulling a shot out of the black...on a silhouette! And, as Jeff notes above, my little Rossi 92 44 mag is a punishing little sob with full house 44 mags that I shot out of my old Super Blackhawk with no issue. I have never handled a handgun where I thought the recoil was abusive, but I've shot a lot of hard kicking rifles. I think it's all in the grip and training.
 
oscarflytyer

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
How to tame a riot shotgun (in this case, Mossberg 500 Tactical, with "egg shell" stock): Put a 1 lb lead pellet 'sausage roll' in the upper comb, and another 8 oz scrap lead in the pistol grip. Tames that thing right down to a pussycat! Went from whiplash (and have bad degenerative disc disease in my neck), to VERY comfortable with slugs in a t-shirt!

And speaking of shotguns with little recoil - if you are in the market - I will plug for the Winchester SX-4. A day in the dove field with a very mix mash of vintage field loads. Cycled everything flawlessly. Limited out and at the end of the day, not even a touch of a shoulder bruise. Duck loads are just as easy on the shoulder. I highly recommend it!
 
W

Walks

Well-Known Member
I never got into the 24cal guns. My Family was .25caliber all the way. From My Grandmother's Win M94 in .25-35WCF to My 2 weeks try out with the .25WSSM. Dad shot coyotes from a Biplane before WW2 a Savage 99 in .250-3000, his Dad hunted Elk in Montana with a custom built M1917 in .257Roberts. All 5 Grandsons used that .257 to take their 1st deer, with either Rem Corelokts or Hornady 100gr RN. Dad didn't like bloodshot meat either. But he said it was better then tracking a deer.
 
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oscarflytyer

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
Walks said:
Oscarflytyer,

Congrats, the "25 Bob" is about the Best dual purpose cartridge out there.
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Hard to argue. 6.5 Swede same basic. Albeit, I have never done or set up for any varmint hunting. Have/had always wanted a 222 Rem, and now do, so IF I do any dedicated varmint stuff, the 222 will get the nod. Unless, OF COURSE, I am just woods walking with a lever gun/revolver combo - then, of course, it would be the 53/Smith or Colt 32-20 combo! Lol!
 
CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Back in the '90's over on Greybeards ol forum I read a comment that stuck with me. I have repeated it many times. "Recoil is in the shoulder of the beholder."

Truer words have not been spoken..

But Ill tell ta the Winchester '94 is very efficient at transmitting EVERY BIT OF RECOIL into the shooters shoulder & cheek bone!! Making mild calibers like 30 WCF & 43 Mag UNPLEASANT!! While same calibers in a Marlin are "normal". For me yet another "strike" against the '94 Winny.

I love 86/71 & 92 Winchester Levers. Not the '94's. The 86/71 can thump ya in some configurations too but "shotgun" butts helped. Mostly it was the drop of the stock that got ya.

CW
 
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W

Walks

Well-Known Member
I've shot the .30-30 in a M94 since I was small. Dad didn't like or want Us shooting a M94 until We had some size; 5'6" at least. And it sure beat up a scrawny kid. From the bench it was brutal. A 16" Trapper is far worse the the 20" bbl'd standard Carbine.
The M94 20" in .44Mag with full power loads is just as bad. Still and all I think My head would explode if I was forced to choose between a M92 - .44WCF and a M94 - .30-30.
Glad I have those .25 caliber rifles.
 
Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Ian said:
My head would explode if I had to trade in all my Marlin 336s for Winchester 94s.
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Mine too. I will take a Marlin over a Win every time.

I only we got the Win fit and finish on a Marlin.
 
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