Need powder recommendations
- Thread starter Will
- Start date
Ian
Notorious member
Yep, I don't know why people think that. Probably because not enough people have actually done it. What happens is "where'd that one go??", followed by checking to see if the scope rattles.
Then get busy. By the time you are done you will have at least a masters.My wife tells me I have a bachelors degree in this subject....
And she needs to learn to be more supportive. Pharmacists understand that, techs don't.
waco
Springfield, Oregon
LOL! I'll tell her you said that!And she needs to learn to be more supportive. Pharmacists understand that, techs don't.
35 shooter
Well-Known Member
Will,
I doubt leading will be a problem at 47 gr. I think I quit at 46 gr. just before hunting season that year.
I haven' t experimented with it any further yet.
I doubt leading will be a problem at 47 gr. I think I quit at 46 gr. just before hunting season that year.
I haven' t experimented with it any further yet.
fiver
Well-Known Member
one of my early goes was with the savage 110 the 314299 and some 7283.
I found a load that was about 50-K in pressure and should have been airc 242500ish.
well I jammed that nose on up in there and immediately found out 7283 does not like a jammed rifling start.
I wasn't too fond of it either as in 'jeezus did my safety glasses just hit the scope?'
okay I'm now prepared for it this time, booom, hmm that's a lot of smoke.
I can't see any holes in the paper, I better go down there.... confused look.
hmm no leading I must be waay off the paper with the scope settings....
I found a load that was about 50-K in pressure and should have been airc 242500ish.
well I jammed that nose on up in there and immediately found out 7283 does not like a jammed rifling start.
I wasn't too fond of it either as in 'jeezus did my safety glasses just hit the scope?'
okay I'm now prepared for it this time, booom, hmm that's a lot of smoke.
I can't see any holes in the paper, I better go down there.... confused look.
hmm no leading I must be waay off the paper with the scope settings....
35 shooter
Well-Known Member
Got a question on this speed shooting thing.
For example let's say you have good bullet fit and load technique. Your using a good bullet design for speed and a powder that's right for the job on hand...to get good speed with no pressure issues.
You have shot this powder up to 48 gr. at say 2500 fps. with 1.5" and better accuracy @ 110 yds.
You know you can safely go to say 51 gr. for 2700 fps., but with this powder and bullet and alloy, all you get from 49 gr. to 51 gr. is 2 to 3" groups with no pressure signs.
Let's say your sizing at .311 for 2 to 3 thou. over bore size and bore size is .308..... would it make any sense at all to try sizing .310, .309, or even .308 first before trying another powder at that point?
Would a good slow powder that normally gives low chamber and muzzle pressure bump a smaller dia. bullet up at that point and be worth trying?
I know you can try a ton of other things at that point, but this is something i HAVEN'T tried at high velocity.....anybody?
For example let's say you have good bullet fit and load technique. Your using a good bullet design for speed and a powder that's right for the job on hand...to get good speed with no pressure issues.
You have shot this powder up to 48 gr. at say 2500 fps. with 1.5" and better accuracy @ 110 yds.
You know you can safely go to say 51 gr. for 2700 fps., but with this powder and bullet and alloy, all you get from 49 gr. to 51 gr. is 2 to 3" groups with no pressure signs.
Let's say your sizing at .311 for 2 to 3 thou. over bore size and bore size is .308..... would it make any sense at all to try sizing .310, .309, or even .308 first before trying another powder at that point?
Would a good slow powder that normally gives low chamber and muzzle pressure bump a smaller dia. bullet up at that point and be worth trying?
I know you can try a ton of other things at that point, but this is something i HAVEN'T tried at high velocity.....anybody?
fiver
Well-Known Member
I prefer to try and pour as close to size from the mold as possible rather than size down.
sizing stresses the bullet.
I use just barely over in many instances.
225 in the 223
358 in the 358 win
324 in the 8mm
I mostly use .310 in the 30 cals I have because that is the nominal ball seat diameter in most rifles.
my 2 most used 30 cal. HV molds pour to or just barely over .310. [specced that way]
I trade off the alignment and sealing of that size against a slip fit in the barrel.
whereas in other instances I don't I try to get the bullet into the barrel straight and smooth then accelerate it [it just kind of depends on the throat and the mold shape I'm using]
IMO diameter can help and it's worth exploring, but I would prefer to get there from the mold and not the size die.
sizing stresses the bullet.
I use just barely over in many instances.
225 in the 223
358 in the 358 win
324 in the 8mm
I mostly use .310 in the 30 cals I have because that is the nominal ball seat diameter in most rifles.
my 2 most used 30 cal. HV molds pour to or just barely over .310. [specced that way]
I trade off the alignment and sealing of that size against a slip fit in the barrel.
whereas in other instances I don't I try to get the bullet into the barrel straight and smooth then accelerate it [it just kind of depends on the throat and the mold shape I'm using]
IMO diameter can help and it's worth exploring, but I would prefer to get there from the mold and not the size die.
Ian
Notorious member
How you got to 2500 fps in the first place with 1.5 or better MOA groups should be your cue on what you might need to change for the next jump.
Here's how I do it, YMMV: I tend to start low to get on paper (1.8-2K fps) and get things working good there. Then I add more powder, or change powders, and work up until something gives and groups go south. Then I change alloy a bit, or seating depth, or something else like crimp until I get groups back or switch powders again if the one I'm using just won't work. Then I push some more, rinse and repeat. What I learn doing this is the pressure/alloy/fit dynamic which works with a particular rifle and bullet mould, and to push up the velocity, all I have to do is find a way to duplicate that dynamic at higher velocity/pressure. If I can't get sub-MOA groups at 1900 fps with a certain bullet in a certain rifle, there's no point trying harder and I try a different bullet, but if I can, the sky is the limit if I can just keep finding ways to make the same thing happen to the bullet at 2400 fps that was giving me really tight groups at lower speed. The bullet size that works at medium velocity should also work at high velocity.
Ian
Notorious member
I don't think you're thinking wrong. Generally speaking, the less you can size it, the better. I say generally because sometimes when you got a huge, machine-gun chamber with equally huge neck, it can help to throat the throat entrance to something like .315" with a tapered reamer so you can shoot bullets having .313-.314" drive bands and deep lube grooves for displacement and fill up that ornery neck space. A better solution is finding brass with thicker necks, or making brass from another caliber, but sometimes it's more practical to throat and go oversize on the bullet. At HV the bullet is going to have some shape-shifting going on anyway, so squirting it through an orifice doesn't do all that much more "damage" to it as long as you have a bullet designed to keep itself straight and an alloy which will "draw" easily.
fiver
Well-Known Member
you take the chance of riveting and distorting the base.
you have to absolutely 100% of the time every time get the bullet into the barrel straight and as undamaged as possible.
that is from the mold to the muzzle.
now some designs actually rely on the bullet being damaged as it goes from the case into the barrel.
the damage changes the shape of the bullet.
the design allows that to happen in a positive way and controls where it occurs.
they rely on lots of steel support and need good support from front to back, they also need just enough openings on the drive bands to take the lead displaced by the rifling.
a softer more flexible alloy that works with the pressure rise to control those changes is best here.
others basically fight it all the way.
they start in with a static fitment that doesn't really touch anything then is slammed into the steel, they take the rifling only grudgingly and would be better at being sized [poured] really close to groove diameter.
they need a tougher stronger alloy to survive the initial contact and to get into the barrel properly without any movement of the design whatsoever.
extra diameter isn't really needed here but it does have to have enough to do the job.
you have to absolutely 100% of the time every time get the bullet into the barrel straight and as undamaged as possible.
that is from the mold to the muzzle.
now some designs actually rely on the bullet being damaged as it goes from the case into the barrel.
the damage changes the shape of the bullet.
the design allows that to happen in a positive way and controls where it occurs.
they rely on lots of steel support and need good support from front to back, they also need just enough openings on the drive bands to take the lead displaced by the rifling.
a softer more flexible alloy that works with the pressure rise to control those changes is best here.
others basically fight it all the way.
they start in with a static fitment that doesn't really touch anything then is slammed into the steel, they take the rifling only grudgingly and would be better at being sized [poured] really close to groove diameter.
they need a tougher stronger alloy to survive the initial contact and to get into the barrel properly without any movement of the design whatsoever.
extra diameter isn't really needed here but it does have to have enough to do the job.
35 shooter
Well-Known Member
Wll,
I'll be following your results with the .3095 sized bullets with much interest.. Thanks. I just got into .30 cal. cast shooting a little over a year ago and only have one sizing die at .311 for now.
My moulds pour just a bit over .311, so i just ran with that.
35 shooter
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys....much to mull over.