Common Alloys And Their Uses

[Ian]

JIM, get yourself a bottle of root killer crystals and a stainless-steel TiG welding filler rod. Grab some tiny O-rings and tapered rubber plugs from the hardware store and your old 6/12V trickle charger from under the bench in the garage. Degrease the barrel with brake cleaner followed by streaming-hot soapy water. Plug the breech with a rubber plug. Mix a strong solution of the copper sulphate pentahydrate with distilled water, melted snow, or rainwater and fill the bore 2/3 full with it. Put o-rings on the rod to keep it from grounding out to the barrel, poke it in the barrel slowly until it stops on the plug, top off the solution (an eye dropper helps with this), and look on tje internet to figure out which way to hook up the charger because I can't remember right now. You can use an old wall charger fir a defunct device that outs out 12vDC and something like 200mA, but it takes a little longer to work.

This will plate the copper onto the rod. You will have to empty the works and clean the barrel every so often as you uncover layers of grime which big down the reverse-electroplating process. You will also have to clean the copper off off the rod at the same time.

 

[JustJim]

Maybe k12?

Not much effect. Copper cleaners (except the old "ammonia dope") don't do much for removing cupronickel. I've always wanted to try some of that nickel plating remover that Brownells sells, but I usually manage to avoid getting barrels with this much fouling.

In contrast, I once helped a friend clean leading out of his Mosin-Nagant. He'd shot about 100 rounds of hardcast 309" bullets through a bore that later mic'd at .317". Took a couple hours.

 

[CZ93X62]

I've made "FBI Blue Goop" from 30% stronger ammonia and 5-6 38 caliber gas checks in a dark glass 4 oz Hoppe's #9 bottle. THAT removes cupro-nickel fouling all right, but you MUST wear nitrile gloves to handle it. Womenfolk DO NOT like it within a 1/4 mile of anyplace they reside. I have priors for this faux pas.

Far less noxious and almost as effective is a commercial solvent known as "Sweet's 7.62". It contains ammonia as well, but is not as pungent as the home-made brew above. Neither one should be left on a bore surface for more than 15-20 minutes, per the white-coated & propeller-hatted lab rats at FBI's Labs. After patch-out of the ammonia-based stuff, a patch of Hoppe's or CLP is a good idea, and let it sit for 15-20 minutes too. It WILL lift more robin-egg-blue dreck for ya. Rinse and repeat, just DON'T leave the ammonia on barrel steel--esp. stainless steel, which contains a bit of copper in its alloy. It will start to etch in about 2 hours, per The Feebs.

 

[Bret4207]

Both my Krag and '03 are heavily fouled with jacket material I have some Sweets, but haven't gotten a "round tuit" yet. The above posts remind me to get going on that and offer some insight on what I'm facing with Sweets. Looks like some care is required. I really do have to try that reverse electrolysis someday, but I don't think these will be my guinea pigs. A bit OT, but isn't that sort of how tin plating works? Electroplating is basically what we're talking about, right? I hve 2 cream separators that need retinning on the bowls and discs. Tin I have, knowledge (or the $6-800 quoted to have it done) I don't!

 

[Ian]

If you make a routine out of it and use a milder copper remover such as Shooter's Choice or Hoppes' Benchrest #9 copper remover, the fouling can be removed with time. When I'm too lazy to drag out the Outers Foul Out III I jog a wet patch through the bore before work and do wet/dry/wet when I get home. Do this for a week or two, with a good brushing every few days and it will eventually come clean.

 

[Bret4207]

Well, I'm pretty sure niether of these rifles have seen a cleaning rod since leaving the Armory!

 

[JustJim]

That's the boat I'm in too. It doesn't help that a while back, the PO lucked into a bunch of mil issue ammo, and shot it up.

 

[Rockydoc]

I've been trying, but Kroil doesn't do much for getting under cupro-nickel fouling. J-B is about the only thing that's moving it.

How about electrolytic de-plating?

 

[RicinYakima]

Reverse electrolysis works, but there are risks. IF there are layers of metal with carbon in-between, the carbon can fall to the bottom of the chamber and build up and arc. It makes really fine pitting in just an hour. Ask me how I know.

 

[JustJim]

I'm sticking (so far) with JB, and occasional shooting to loosen things up. It does "OK" now (~3" with barrel sights, using a ball-equivalent load), but if I were going to keep it I'd re-crown it. I may break down and try some Sweet's, but that electrolytic stuff gives me the heebie-jeebies. Sometimes I think my motto should be, "what can go wrong, will go wrong--I can find a way!"

 

[fiver]

back about 100 years ago they used to slather the interior of their 03's with something called safety paste.
it was supposed to hold things until the owner got home and could do a real cleaning.

now every once in a while they'd lather the bore down and go to cleaning when the owner got home.
the cleaner applied at the range would actually bind up the dirty stuff in the barrel and make a 20 minute chore into nearly an all night shoulder work out.

 

[RicinYakima]

The key to safety paste was to pour a couple of gallons of boiling water down the bore to flush it out.

 

[burbank.jung]

I've managed to return and ask more questions. Do you casters prefer to shoot your bullets fresh, having an idea what the hardness is? Or, do you wait a few weeks, having an idea that alloys will age harden at a fixed amount or test then after a few weeks? For myself, I've slugged my barrels and think I'm sizing correctly, I'm powder coating too. My plan is to cast bags of bullets when I have time and store them, then PC and size them when I'm ready to shoot. My concern is oxidation. Will the paint adhere to the lead still? The air is pretty dry where I live. Maybe it would be best to just PC and store the bullets and be done with it. While hardness was mentioned as a minor concern. I separated my ingots into hard alloy and soft alloy. I think a harder alloy would be better for 9mm, 40 caliber, and maybe .357 mag cast bullets. Am I on the right track? My lead is range lead from and outdoor range. Thanks

 

[Mitty38]

Do you casters prefer to shoot your bullets fresh, having an idea what the hardness is? Or, do you wait a few weeks, having an idea that alloys will age harden at a fixed amount or test then after a few weeks?

YES
You either do one or the other.
1. Work up your load, load them up, and shoot them in a couple days.
Or....
2. Cast them, and them settle first for a few weeks ( I prefer 6), then re size or at least check size, and load.

Of course, if you have worked with the exact same alloy before. So you know that neither size or hardness is going to change enough to effect what you are doing....then do not worry about it.

Confused yet???

Size growth of the bullet is usually way more of a concern then BHN change, for 9mm and 40 caliber pistols.

Far as powder coating, if you do. Do it ASAP. Within a day or two, seems to be the general rule.
Longer the bullets are naked the more contaminated the get.
Of course there are ways of dealing with oxidation, but lets try to avoid that. We can cross that line, if we ever get to it. There are whole sections of threads here about that.

NOW....For the .357 or 38 special. You can just toss everything I said out the window,especially if you are going to powder coat.
A lot of folks start out with a 357-38 special, casting and loading. I did.
It is the most forgiving IMHO of all the handgun rounds.

Of course Nothing I have said is "dyed in the wool". There are exceptions to every rule or method so to speak.

You just want all factors to match, as much as possible, between the time you have worked up a final load and the time you shoot it. Also when you reload it and shoot it later.
Consistency is what we are going for.

 

[Mitty38]

Maybe it would be best to just PC and store the bullets and be done with it. While hardness was mentioned as a minor concern. I separated my ingots into hard alloy and soft alloy. I think a harder alloy would be better for 9mm, 40 caliber, and maybe .357 mag cast bullets. Am I on the right track? My lead is range lead from and outdoor range. Thanks

I am sure some of the fellows here could give you better advice then me on this. And many would like to expound on your latest questions. In fact, I am sure they will.


What I did when I was in your situation, was to blend all the range lead I had, into one even consistent batch.
Worked for me.
Thing is, you have to find what works for you.
It is a lot less complicated then you are making it for yourself. So jump in the water is fine.

 

[Bret4207]

I've managed to return and ask more questions. Do you casters prefer to shoot your bullets fresh, having an idea what the hardness is? Or, do you wait a few weeks, having an idea that alloys will age harden at a fixed amount or test then after a few weeks? For myself, I've slugged my barrels and think I'm sizing correctly, I'm powder coating too. My plan is to cast bags of bullets when I have time and store them, then PC and size them when I'm ready to shoot. My concern is oxidation. Will the paint adhere to the lead still? The air is pretty dry where I live. Maybe it would be best to just PC and store the bullets and be done with it. While hardness was mentioned as a minor concern. I separated my ingots into hard alloy and soft alloy. I think a harder alloy would be better for 9mm, 40 caliber, and maybe .357 mag cast bullets. Am I on the right track? My lead is range lead from and outdoor range. Thanks

Okay, so you are completely ignoring the advice to ignore the "hardcast" trash and you're still stuck in that groove. Good luck.

 

[Brad]

I use range scrap from an outdoor range as is for all handgun use. Works fine for 38 special, 357 Mag, 9 mm, 45 ACP, and anything else I try it in.
Don't fret over hardness. With PC it is far less critical than traditional lube and ever there it isn’t the big deal some want to make it.
I would cast and store as you wish. Oxidation will occur but takes time, maybe in the order of years.
I would do what works for your time and style. I have bullets I cast years ago that I am costing and using currently. No problems at all.

Play with stuff. See what works FOR YOU. Most of all, ignore most advice if it is counter to what you are finding works for you. Your guns and targets are the ultimate judge.

 

[462]

Play with stuff. See what works FOR YOU. Most of all, ignore most advice if it is counter to what you are finding works for you. Your guns and targets are the ultimate judge.

Yep, cast, load and shoot. Either your experiments will produce the desired results or they won't. Either way they will successful in that you will have gained valuable knowledge.

I don't know the BHN of my ingots nor bullets. Don't care to know, neither. All I know is that one alloy satisfies all my handgun shooting, and another the rifles. Got there by experimenting, not worrying about numbers.

 

[Brad]

Leading a barrel or two is a learning experience. We often learn far more from failure than success.
I can assure you that most of us here learned from the school of hard knocks. Still a very good school.

 

[462]

Leading a barrel or two is a learning experience. We often learn far more from failure than success.
I can assure you that most of us here learned from the school of hard knocks. Still a very good school.I wa

When I first started casting, I was flying solo for most of a year before finding that other site. The S&W 624 was leading, so I started reading current posts and rummaging round the dimly lit archive looking for answers. Some people said to use a soft/softer alloy, others said it use a hard/harder alloy, some said to air cool, still others said to water quench, and there were those who recommended an untold number of lubes. Through it all, there were some voices who weren't saying any of that. What they weren't saying was to use a soft/softer alloy, a hard/harder alloy, to air cool, to water quench, or try different lubes. In their own ways they were saying the path to success was to experiment.

As soon as the light became visible, I sold the hardness tester (ha, ha, let some other fool play that game!), and started making alloys till I found what my guns liked.

Ironically, or not, all those voices are this site's main characters and I continue to listen to and learn from them.